arafat

[kiyara]

so its pretty mysterious wahts going on now, like where is he, exactly wht is his disease, and which rumors are true?
i read that he is thought to have aids....but think about it..does arafat seem like the type of guy to sleep around? who even knows.
what do you all think - is this good/bad for israel?

i say good - he is/was a bad guy and did a lot of terrorist supporting under the table, and if he dies naturally, even better than israel having to do a military offensive that will get them into international trouble.
some ppl i have spoken to think it is bad, because then there will be a civil war b/t palestinians to see who will take over. but wait- i thoguht that bush politically/internationally sideline arafat because he was not a peace partner, and now some one else has the throne of PM? what do they all mean....take over...ooh, so arafat was really the4 leader all along?! (duh)

[israeliwannabe]

i agree with you that it is better that he dies naturally than israel having to do a military offensive. however, i think it will be bad for israel for a number of reasons. first of all,the civil war between the palestinians like you mentioned. also, the palestinians will find some way to blame it (at least somewhat) on israel and there will be lots of attacks on israel. another thing is that they wanna burry him in Jerusalem. sharon has allready said no and it's allready causing conflict. imagine what will happen when he actually dies and we haven't agreed on anything!!

[whuknu]

there are other ways to get aids besides sleeping around... but i would think that it is highly unlikely for him to have aids, but who knows?
First of all- i cant decide if i think he should be or shouldnt be burried in jersusalem- i mean they can burry him in the muslim quarters, and while we dont like him, hes going to be dead, we can show a little something for the dead, plus whtvr, he will be dead, at least we wont have to deal with him nemore (but we will have someone else anyways). But then iasked my parents about it and they said bc holy ppl are burriedi n jerusalem we dont want to bury a rasha such as arafat. but i sed there are ppl burried in jerusalem that are not holy. but why should he be burried there? its not his land!
Also, a teacher of mine said that calling them plalestinians is implyingthat they are from palestine, but there is no place called palestine, there never will be (i hope) and there never even was. (he told me why there never was a place called palestine, i dotn rememebr why, i can ask him so i can make sure though) either way today there is no palestine so why call them palestinians>????????)

[whuknu]

I talked to my teacher- he sed that there was never a kingdom actually called palestine, but rather it was a general area, that was called palestine. He also sed that if they connect them selves to the philistins (pilishtim), who disappeared long ago, than they cant connect themeselves to the arabs bc that is saying they are from the arabian peninsula- so they cant be from both the arabian peninsula and eretz pilishtim.

[CptCatz]

for whuknu's posts, who really cares what people call them or what they call themselves? whats the defferance? would you call people from brazil "americans"? they are from america so they should be americans. whats being called a palestinian have anything to do with it?

as for arafat, i can care less, and i can also care less where they burry him.

[whuknu]

they are south americans-and we in the usa are north americans- thats the area we r in-but if u dont care fine- i was just making a statement thats all

[Icegal104]

arafat is finally dead. i think that jews all over the world should celebrate! i read in the israeli news that they are going to be handing out candies in jerusalem to celebrate. anyone have any thoughts on this? anyway i think its great that he is finally dead and that everyone should now be very happy!

about his burial- he is for sure not getting buried in jerusalem. i read in the israeli newspaper that they are not going to let the arabs in to bury him in jerusalem. for now they are burying him in Ramallah. anyway, i just thought it would be nice to post such happy news so that everyone knows.
if u have any thoughts...
post back!
~I Luv Ice~

[whuknu]

I think it is terrible that we are celebrating his death-Even our worst enemies death we are not supposed to celebrate-when the jews left egypt and the egyptians were killed, they did not celebrate, they were sad. Celebrating Arafat's death publicly would be almost (if not equal to) as bad as when there were muslims (was it them?) celebrating on 9/11. To ourselves i guess its ok to celebrate inwardly-but definetly not publicly-even in israel. so i think we can be happy but not show it so much- we should show a little sorrow (in my opinion).

But i am glad that he isnt being buried in jerusalem- i think i am anyways-probably

[CptCatz]

what are you smoking icegal? hes not dead yet

[Icegal104]

actually, if u read the news arafat's brain dead and he was taken off life- support. his funeral's on friday. i read it in the news. also why wouldn't we celebrate the death of a monster who killed so many jews? i think we SHOULD celebrate. why not be publicly happy? its not even like we killed him anyway.

~I Luv Ice~

[Icegal104]

cpycatz, if u looked on the news maybe u would find out that Araftat's already BRAIN-DEAD which means hes necer coming back, even if he isnt techincally dead yet

[whuknu]

bc we arent as low down as they are! it doesnt matter if we didnt kill him or we did! I sed why we shouldnt publicly celebrate-the jews coming out of egypt didnt celebrate the deaths of their enemys- they were sad! he might be a monster, but if we celebrate his death, who r we to criticize those muslims who celebrated 9/11? he may have been a rasha, but we should not stoop to his level, or even lower than that, we are the jewish ppl and we are 'or l'goyim'-we are supposed to be an example to other nations. If God forbid a jewish leader died, we would be devestated if our enemies celebrated in the streets... at least i know i would be

[PrUnE]

arafat died today offical i think so yea.

[durden]

ok wait am i the only one whos a little "uneasy" celebrating a mans death. dont get me rong im a zionist and im not an arafat fan but everytime i hear some1 say "yay arafats dead" i jsut have like a flashback of the palestinians dancing in the street to celebrate 911, and cmon do we wanna be like them? ok 911 was a terrorsit attack and this wasnt but cmon there still both celebrating death.

[whuknu]

ok wait am i the only one whos a little "uneasy" celebrating a mans death. dont get me rong im a zionist and im not an arafat fan but everytime i hear some1 say "yay arafats dead" i jsut have like a flashback of the palestinians dancing in the street to celebrate 911, and cmon do we wanna be like them? ok 911 was a terrorsit attack and this wasnt but cmon there still both celebrating death.
Did u not read all the posts? i clearly stated my disaproval with the celebrating of even an enemy's death! dont get ME wrong- i am a zionist my self but to celebrate the death of an enemy- that goes against the torah- bnei yisroel did not celebrate the death of the egyptians.

now, in defense of the palestinians- certainly not all of the palestinians celbrated on 9/11 that was most likely a select few and i know alot of ppl will either disagree with me or find some sort of way to prove me wrong, but either way this isnt about the palestinians- it should be about us.

[Blink]

"JUBILATION WHEN THE WICKED PERISH"
An interesting debate is being conducted in some circles in Israel as to precisely how happy one should be at Arafat's demise. One Biblical verse that has often been quoted of late is, "When the wicked perish, there is jubilation" (Proverb 11,10). A statement by the Tekumah party - a faction of the National Union - notes that the Talmud cites this verse in response to witnesses who fear that their testimony might help put someone to death. The judges tell them, "You will not be liable for this blood; it is rather a merit for you, to purify the world from evil and to add light and joy, as is written, 'When the wicked perish, there is jubilation.'"

Tekumah also quotes Rabbi A. I. Kook, Chief Rabbi of pre-State Israel, as writing that the verse implies that even "evil itself, in its depth, longs for its own demise and rejoices in it." The Tekumah statement concludes, "If we recall the dark passion of the terrorists to kill themselves together with their victims, and Arafat's wish to be a shahid [martyr], we can begin to understand Rabbi Kook's words, and see the kindness that was done to Arafat with his passing from the world."

Others quote a different verse in Proverbs: "When your enemy falls, do not rejoice" (24, 17). Some explain, however, that this is referring to one's personal enemy, but not to "wicked people" in general, over whose downfall one should rejoice. Others explain that this means not to have public rejoicing in the streets.

Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, Dean of Yeshivat Ateret Cohanim in the Old City of Jerusalem and Rabbi of Beit El, writes that when considering the injunction not to "rejoice upon the fall of your enemy," it depends who the enemy is:
"When the Purim story occurred, Mordechai did not act particularly compassionately towards Haman. When the latter cited this verse, Mordechai replied that it did not apply to him. The same with Arafat, who killed many Jews and left many widows, widowers, orphans and suffering wounded... It's true that G-d told the angels not to sing when the Egyptians were drowning in the Red Sea - but the Children of Israel did sing! We, too, are not angels - just as the Rabbi of Pisetzna, Rabbi Kalman Kalonymus Shapira, wrote during the Holocaust: 'Did an angel ever get hit? Did an angel ever get murdered? Did an angel ever get humiliated? We did! In Egypt, the angels didn't suffer - so they don't have to sing [afterwards]. But we did suffer, [and that's why we sang]...' For Arafat we say, 'when the wicked perish, there is jubilation.'"

The Pikuach Nefesh Rabbis Association, headed by Rabbis Yaakov Yosef (son of Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef), David Druckman of Kiryat Motzkin, and Yosef Garletzky, similarly states that the day of Arafat's death is one of "happiness and rejoicing for the Nation of Israel." The organization published a call to make the day one of celebration, and stated,
"We wish to uproot the mistake of those who mock those who are happy on this day as 'right-wing extremists," as those who do so, deviate gravely from the natural instincts and feelings of our people, who hate the enemies of the Jews and are happy at their downfall. 'So may all Your enemies fall, O G-d!'"


i think this clears up the argument!!!

[durden]

sorry if i offeneded u whuknu i didnt read all the posts clearly enough obviously, and i agree with u 110% about the palestianins- i kno that not all or even most of the palestinians cleebrated 9/11 but the ones who did are pretty horrible people and im jsut saying that i dont want to be like them. (the few that did celebrate, obivosuly exxagereated by the right wing media) and ur right it should be about us i was jsut giving an example.

[whuknu]

Blink- we may not be angels but we are certainly not beasts! how can we repremand those who celbrated 9/11 and then we make ourselves hypocrits and celebrate the death of our own enemy???? And like you sed- GOD HIMSELF told the Jews not to rejoice in the death of their enemys- but they did anyways- so bc the Jews sang (which im not even sure- did they sing out of joy for their freedom or out of joy of the death of an enemy?) we too should celebrate? no we shouldnt- bnei yisroel made mistakes throughout the bible- should we repeat those? i surely think not... maybe an inner celebration (inner happiness) isnt so bad but we shouldnt throw parties or dance in the streets over it!

Durden- it ok dont wry about it.

[lost33]

no one celebrated in the streets when they heard arafat died no one gave out candies the way the arabs did on 9/11 pple were just happy and thanked Hashem that sucha n evil person was finally gone.

[Blink]

how can u compare the deaths of those who were murdered in 9/11, to the father of modern day terrorism!!??!! ur comparison is inappropriate!!! that man has ordered the death of thousands of Jews and wouldnt hesitate to order the death of people like us. rejoicing arafats death does not bring you down to the level of those scum who celbrated 9/11; b/c tehre is one difference between the two deaths; those in 9/11 were INNOCENT while arafat was a MASS MURDERER !!!! As i sed before "rejoice when the wicked perish"!!!!
mebe mass celebrating in the streets, would not be in order, but to be glad and to rejoice is no crime.

[whuknu]

lost- and thats why some ppl sed a bracha in the streets of new york? (i dk how many ppl actually did this but i know one personally and im sure a few others did.) ppl did celebrate...
blink- maybe u r right- dont get me wrong anyone- i am glad that rasha is dead! but i dont feel a sense of victory and i dont feel the need to celebrate.

[durden]

lost33- pple in my school were running thru the halls saying yay arafat is dead and other things like that, not every1 did but many, they did everything short of giving candies
blink- first of all "thousands" is an exxageration. hundreds yes, and im not jsutifying anything, he's a bad person i agree and his pple didnt like him either. he was scum. but as much as u and i hated him is how much the pple who celbrated 9/11 hate americans. and can u blame them? if u had to see innoncents blown up by american apache helicopters u would to. granted they don't know the whole story but still ther right to be pissed off.

[lost33]

durden stop with the moral equivalency

[durden]

lost33- no thanx

[lost33]

so ur gonna tell me that wen a terrorists is killed it is the same as when a suicide bomber kills children on a school bus? that wen a terrorist uses an innocent as a human shield and the innocent is killed in the crossfire that is the same as when a terroist purposely takes a sniper rifle n kills a tenth month old baby in her stroller???? this is moral equivalency, this is ok?!

[Blink]

lost33- pple in my school were running thru the halls saying yay arafat is dead and other things like that, not every1 did but many, they did everything short of giving candies
blink- first of all "thousands" is an exxageration. hundreds yes, and im not jsutifying anything, he's a bad person i agree and his pple didnt like him either. he was scum. but as much as u and i hated him is how much the pple who celbrated 9/11 hate americans. and can u blame them? if u had to see innoncents blown up by american apache helicopters u would to. granted they don't know the whole story but still ther right to be pissed off.

He did murder thousands, how many have died in this so called intifada? thousands, not just Jewish but non-Jews as well. he had the power to stop it, but he wanted blood and lots of Jewish blood. Even before this "intifada" how many ppl did he order the death of? how many ppl died when he gave the command for PLO to unleash hell on innocents?
How many ppl died in the twin towers? around 2000-3000, thats excluding the plane that went missing and those who died in the pentagon. Your comparison is disgusting!!! arafat was EVIL!!!
No it doesnt give them the right to be annoyed, i dont rejoice wen a palestinian child is killed in the cross fire, im upset, b/c he/she was an innocent. those who rejoice the deaths of the INNOCENT are scum, i dont undertsand it, they behaved like animals to rejoice such an evil thing and u try and justify their evilness??

[durden]

ok calm down im not praising arafat. he was bad, very bad. and im not justifying his evilness. but u guys r oversimplfying it, its obviously more complicaed than ur making it. and lost33- u have to admit, like blink is, that the idf does make mistakes its not only the human shield thing. the idf makes many mistakes

[lost33]

of course the idf makes mistakes every army does but the difference is that the idf does not go in with the purpose to kill civillians! evryhting they do is to prevent civillian death, look at why 32 soldiers died in jenin look at why the army has called off numerous airstrikes against hamas leaders for the very reaosn bec it would kill to many civilians! shiek yassin used to surrond himslef wiht civillians bec he knew that israel would not kill him if there were to many civillinas around! look at the way america and every other nation does it, look at how many innnocent deaths america cuased bec it owuld just send bombs down on hotbeds of terorr (bad example seeing how u tend to view america as the root of all evil, but o well how about britian in iraq and russia in chechnya) im not saying the idf is perfect but realize that the innocent lives lost in idf operations are not the goal of the mission the goals are to get or kill the wanted terrorist wiht blood on their hands. thats the difference, the terrorists dont care about humnaity all they want to do is kill as many jews as possible whether they besoldiers men women children, anyone. i never said the idf was perfect but there sure as hell try more then any other army to limit the civillian deaths.

[durden]

look at the way america and every other nation does it, look at how many innnocent deaths america cuased bec it owuld just send bombs down on hotbeds of terorr (bad example seeing how u tend to view america as the root of all evil, but o well how about britian in iraq and russia in chechnya) i dont see america as the root of all evil, i see war as the root of all evil.

[lost33]

do u think war is ever justified?

[durden]

thats a tricky question. id say war as a principle is wrong and unjustifyed but there are excpetions to all rules. obivously im tlaking about modern times, by beliefs about wars would have unplausible in biblical times nowadays i think world peace is possible. laugh it up im an idealist but i think its possible for the most part. do i think war is ever justifyed? 99% of the time, no but there are excpetions to every rule. all recent wars i can think of, i would say no, they were not jsutifyed.

[lost33]

how recent? bec id agree wiht u i dont think any of the modern wars ecxept ww2 would there be a justifiable reason to fiight. but then again i look at the world througha jewish prism and for example i support the iraq war bec i believ in the long run it got rid of a major enemy of israel and that is good in my mind. maybe now it kinda sux but in the long run i think it will prove to have been benefical. just like wen israel bombed the osirak reactor in iraq in 1982 the whole wordl wen nuts eveyoine condemmed israel. but u know wat in the gulf war thousands of lives would have been lost had israel not blown up iraqa nuclear weapons! so i guess only time will tell whtether this currewnt war is right. see for me if it iwll help the jeiwsh pple in the long run id think it was ok even if the war itself was fought for the wrong reasons. i beleive the ends sometimes truly justify the means, im sorry if this is to politically uncorrect for u but i hate political correctness

[J&B]

I agree with lost... that's all I have left to say (he said everything I wanted to say :mad: ...lol)

[lost33]

thanx hahaha