is it bad/crazy to get mad at God? [Archive] - TheLockers.net

whuknu

11-19-2004, 01:08 AM

kiyara

11-19-2004, 12:52 PM

nah ya dont sound crazy, and we are always told that its natural to be mad at god(in our yummy modern orthodox communities0 but i feel like how can they say that- he created us...but then he created us with the feeling of anger/resentment/revenge...but yeah.
i also sometimes explaint o god that i am kind of mad at him. its ok.

whuknu

11-19-2004, 02:40 PM

well our parents also created us technically- i know i get mad at them all the time- but they are physical beings whom i can speak with and so on. But i dont even know how to deal with my anger towards God.

Blink

11-20-2004, 02:39 PM

mebe do exercise to help relive the stress, but the answer G-d gave u was no, but i heared that ur prayers arnt answered then u shud examine ur actions and behaviour. mebe say t'hillim and make an effort to learn something everyday, nothing big, learn a halacha a day of shmiras haloshon, u can get one of those books at ne Judaica store. but never give up with prayer with G-D, u cant lose anything by praying to him

PrUnE

11-20-2004, 10:58 PM

No, it is not bad to be mad at god. I don't feel like givin a whole speech to say why right now, maybe later, but no its not bad.

moo

11-20-2004, 11:36 PM

So i believ in God and everything, and i try to folow the torah as best as possible most of the time. but sometimes, especially lately when everything seems to be falling apart, i get so mad at God. and just like when im mad at a person, i want to scream at Him, but I cant bc that would be very crazy. and disrespectful? but what am i supposed to do?

I think it's ok to be angry with G-d. I mean, if something happens, you can't control how you feel about it. If you stub your toe, it's gonna hurt. If someone disappoints you, u're gonna feel sad. You can't control that, all you can control is how you deal with that. You control your actions. I actually think that if you get angry at G-d for stuff than you have a better awareness of his presence than other people. I believe in Hashem and I keep the Torah, but I can't say that my first reaction is always to think of G-d when something happens. Maybe someday I'll get there...

Its like even if i knew how to express my feelings, it wouldnt even matter, cuz its not like Hes answering back. I feel like the only thing I can really do to let Him know that I'm upset, is to stop following the laws. i used to daven all the time, but things just would get worse and worse i decided that davening wasnt really helping. i decided it was pretty much a waste of my time and energy. i dont want to stop following the laws, i do believen God, but i just get so angry and i dont know how to deal with it. i sound like a completely crazy person....

I wouldn't be disrespectful to G-d when talking to him, but that's just me, even though I or you my feel like it. It doesn't do anything. I've never found that yelling really helps. You feel a surge of power for a minute, and then it goes away and you feel kinda empty and sorry that you just totally lost control. That happened to me both with people and G-d.

And it's sorta naive to think He's not answering back. How do you know? He may not answer you in the way you want, or when you want, but if your davening is genuine why should he say no? and if He does, doesn't He know better? A lot of my peers have this conception of G-d as just a really powerful person, but that just doesn't work. That's not what Judaism or the Torah is. It's much deper than that, much more mature. I never saw this side of Judaism in school, and it irks me that they don't teach this stuff. I think it would help a lot of my friends. I think you and other people would see that not doing the mitzvot doesn't do anything to or for G-d. He knows you're angry, you don't have to tell him. It only helps you to express what you're feeling, but not doing the mitzvot only hurts you. It doesn't affect G-d at all. It can't, by defintion. If you want to keep doing them, keep doing them. If you decide not to, that's your decision. but what do you think it's really doing to G-d?

I don't know if that's too philosophical, but I don't mean to preach. I just have some thoughts that I thought I could spew on these boards. I'm not a doctor or anything, I can't tell you how to deal with you anger. Maybe listen to Blink. Different things work for different people, so I don't know if it will work for you personally. You could try it, though, I mean, Torah's great stuff. It's done some really cool things for me.

whuknu

11-21-2004, 02:19 AM

Well maybe its not so bad, but i feellike the things that i would say to him if i could are bad. andi feel like half the time i just crazy. sometims i feel like He just doesnt listen, other times i feel like He doesnt care, and other times i feel like im davening to nothing. like maybe He doesnt exist. i believe that He does exist. but i used to do all the learning and stuff, and then it jsut became useless. I understand that God sometimes sez no, but I feel like most of the time He is saying no.

whuknu

11-21-2004, 04:49 AM

I know that my not keeping the mitzvot is doing nothing for God. The mitzvot are for humans, i understand that. But why should i do the mizvot if they aret doing nething. Its just that where has being a torah keeping jew gotten me?
I try not to be disrespectful to God, sometimes i jsut start out crying sand like begging God dto help me, but then i get hysterical.... im nuts. i really am. Its like ive seen that crying and davening to get me places, so i get all hysterical and upset and mad. but that gets me no where either.

also when i say answer back, i dont mean like He doesnt answer my prayers- which is also the feeling half thetime- but im talking about like i m actually having a conversation with someone who doesnt talk back to me...

whuknu

11-21-2004, 11:00 AM

thats annoying, i posted a whole thing and it didnt get posted! oh well. its not that im so much disrespectful or trying to be disrespectful, but rather im trying to get a point across to Him and I feel like I cant. I know its not really true, but I feel like Hes not listening. I also feel similar about yelling, but when sometimes when speaking rationally doesnt work, u might not hve a choice. i mean yeh u have a choice, u can just not say nething, but then ur losing. it doesnt really make sense but i didnt sleep much last night.
I know that sometimes God sez no, i just feel like He says no more than He sez yes or whtvr. Sometimes I beg Him to help me, not to do well a test or something like that, but to help me get through things, and it just doesnt seem to work. He sez no each time? Why? What did I do that was so wrong that I have to suffer? why cant he help me? B/c of choices other ppl make? bc of the ones i make? But if I'm turning to Him doesnt it mean im willing to change my ways? I feel like I used to turn to Him all the time and He RARELY seemed to listen, obviosly God does not need my mitzvot, mitzvot are for human beings, so if i dont feel they are doing me any good, why should i do them-this isnt to say that i dont or i will stop, i just dont understand. why should i sit and daven for an hour, when it never seems to work, and i could be doing something productive- not to say that davening isnt productive, it just doesnt seem to be for myself. But also, not doing the mitzvot is saying to God that it may not affect Him, but really, if Hes not going to listen to me, Why should i listen to Him? Granted, He is God and He doesnt have to listen to me, but think of it this way, if u take a test and u studied sooooo soo hard for it, and then ur teacher never grades it, from now on ur not going to study-that will affect u not the teacher- but then u also decide to be a nuisance in class, just bc the teacher did u wrong? the teacher is on a higher level than u, ur failing doesnt really affect him. But to God, the failing should affect Him, since we are all His children and creation. And if my way of saying to God is 'I'm not davening' or not doing mitzvot (which i do keep the ones ive always kept, its just that i find davening to be difficult for me) then God, like the teacher, should see that something is wrong here. Maybe He should do something to fix it? unless He just doesnt care. In which case why should i keep the mitzvot if He doesnt care? if they are for me alone, and i want to eat not kosher, then why cant i? Bc it deserves caret- death by the hand of shemayim. If God doesnt care if we keep kosher or not, then why should we have to die by HIS (GOD'S) hands for eating pork??? it seems obvious to me from this that HE does in fact care! just like the teacher! no teacher wants their student to fail, and neither does God. (keeping kosher might not be caret, but i was just trying to use an example, it might not be a good one, but i was talking about one that is deserving of caret- but even one that is deserving of skilah- God DOES CARE!!!)

whuknu

11-21-2004, 12:55 PM

oops guess it did post lol...

taon

11-21-2004, 03:06 PM

ask why the answer is no. try to figure it out, but ask why. it worked for me.

moo

11-22-2004, 12:28 AM

Whoa. Take a breath, man. Or, maybe, woman. You're gonna blow an artery. A friend of mine once asked his rosh yeshvia a bunch of questions that he was really worried about and his rosh yeshiva (who is israeli) said "Take it easy. Zeh ma shekatuv baTorah. Take it easy."

I understand your questions, really, I do. I've grappled with them myself. I mean, do you really want my answers? I'm just a kid like you. I think I have answers, I've thought about them a lot and read about them. but I don't know if . . . oh whatever.

Basically, look, we don't do the mitzvot because they are good for us or because they are for us at all. We do them because they are right, because the Torah is true. Whatever reward we may or may not get is not our concern because who knows what we do or don't deserve. I can't vouch for every moment of my life. To think of G-d as something or someone I worship or pray to so that he gives me stuff or does stuff for me, and when he doesn't then goodbye, misses the point. That's not the relationship G-d wants with us, to be a business partner, we do what he wants, he does what we want. You're right, G-D CARES, he cares about us, so he tells us what's the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do, what's the best way to live and the not best ways to live. He lays it all out for us loud and clear, and he gives us a choice. He doesn't force our hand, he lets us earn our reward, which makes it even better than just getting it. We have to work for it, and part of that work is not seeing the results but persevering and working for it anyway. It's makes the end that much sweeter. We just don't, can't, see the end right now because it's not the point.

What did you do that was so wrong that G-d never gvies you what you want? I have no idea, and neither do you. That's the point. We're not in this for the reward, we're in this because it's real. It's the only thing that is real. That's what we say in aleinu: "ki Hashem hu halelokim . . . ein od." I personally take that to mean that there is nothing else besides G-d. I mean think about it. If something totally had no G-d in it whatsoever, how could it exist? It's because Judaism and the Torah deal with questions like these, and give sensible, logical answers, that I started taking it seriously.

You can't always feel something when you do something, like davening. What I mean is, the more you do it, the less you feel. Why do think all the grownups talk in shul? They don't feel a thing, they just go because they've been going, it's ingrained in them, it's habit. They don't really know why they go anymore. Now I'm not saying that we're all destined to end up this way. From what I've learned the challenge is not to let that happen. It does happen that way by default, though, we just have to work against that. My point is tho that just because u feel like it's a one sided conversation, or that u've used davening to "get you places" and now it's not, doesn't mean u should stop, or that G-d's got it wrong or that he's screwing you over. Jews don't follow the mitzvot because they feel good. This is the only religion in the world that I know of that works this way, in actual practice. I'm not frum to get results, I'm frum because I think it's the right thing to do. Besides, you never know if not getting what you wanted didn't prevent something even worse from happening had you gotten what you wanted. Like the guy who misses his flight and then finds out it never made it to the destination.

Yeah G-d cares, and he gives karet and other punishments, but see it's not really punishment. It's cause and effect. We make a choice to live a certain way, and G-d respects that choice. We're told beforehand what the affects of choosing either option will be, and then we have the opportunity to choose, and we know full well what's gonna happen. G-d respects our choice, and he lets events unfold as we knew they would and as we chose to have happen. He cares so much about us that he actually gives us what we think we want rather than what's best for us.

So maybe u didn't want to hear my thoughts, I don't know how much they're worth. It's just how I see it.

whuknu

11-22-2004, 12:32 PM

first- i do want to hear ur thoughts (as well as other's), thats why i posted in the first place. so thank u, i apreciate it... agreeing with u is another story...

i'm not talking about praying to God to get me places. I'm talking about praying to god to help me with things that I just cant handle. i'm not talking about the car I want, or the guy I like, or getting a good grade on a test. I'm talking about other thins (that i dont really want to share right now) that arent like that at all. Maybe my relationship with God should not be like that, and maybe i should do mitzvot jsut bc they are they right thing to do. I feel that I always have done the right thing. I dress the way is considered tznius, I keep kosher, I keep shabbat. these are all mitzvot, that i do cuz its "right" I dont do drugs, drink, party, bc its "wrong" (not judging anyone that does, this is opinion, just how i live my life, not necessarily that its wrong). But u know they teach us in yeshiva, u pray for what u want, that doesnt make sense. We shouldnt be taught that, i mean obviosly we do pray for what we want and thats true, and we know that God can say no blah whatever, but so we really shouldnt look at praying as a way of asking for what we want. we should look at it as if its just something we do bc its right? bc thats what we are told? i dont know. this is a little confusing to me.

If God doesnt want to help me then what am i suppsod to do? fine keep praying keep doing mitzvot...but where do i get help from, ok outside things liek thelockers, therapy, all these things, but sometimes its God whose help one needs... I mean someone can go to the best therapist, rabbi whtvr, but those things dont always work, even if u go in with that attitude that it will. If u have a problem with a friend or parent, u usually tell them dont u? I know i do...of course u do it with respect and everything... its like constructive critism ... and maybe they respond saying, ok i will try to fix what i am doing wrong...maybe they ask u to help them fix it or find a way to fix it, and u work together. obviosly God is on a diferent level, but its still similar. sort of.
God does do what He feels is best-then why doesnt it ever feel like that? sure we dont see the whole picture, but sometimes, the whole picture doesnt help

As for mitzvot being the right thing, so if someone doesnt want to do something bc they dont agree that keeping the mitzvot are the 'right' thing, they should die? so killing is wrong, speaking lashon hara is wrong, but why is not keeping kosher wrong? why is not keeping shabbat wrong? I dont think its a matter of wrong or right, these are the laws; just like someone doesnt feel its wrong for gay ppl to marry, yet its the law that they cant (except in Mass). (not trying to start topic of gay ppl, jsut using an example).

PrUnE

11-22-2004, 07:03 PM

Listen you have every right to get mad at god, why? because you have free thought, free opinion, and u believe that god gave that to you yes? so then obviously ur usin it which would make him happy. It's not crazy to be mad at god, cause frankly he does stuff in this world that no one likes, and of course everyone is gonna get mad whether they say it or not, and to say everyone is crazy, is just CrAzY.

whuknu

11-22-2004, 07:47 PM

so i can get mad at God- but how do i deal with this anger?

PrUnE

11-22-2004, 07:50 PM

so i can get mad at God- but how do i deal with this anger?By just randomly yellin in ur room (make sure no one can hear u, or they will think ur crazy).

whuknu

11-23-2004, 09:55 AM

well ive tried that- it doesnt really work- even though He might be listening- i feel like Hes not. and i feel crazy lol

PrUnE

11-23-2004, 07:31 PM

i mean like to get all the anger out................................

whuknu

11-23-2004, 08:12 PM

i know but that just doesnt seem to work.

booklet0519

11-28-2004, 08:26 AM

i think geeting mad at god is natural... but a better idea is to look at your life and see what you cna do to fix it.. even kvetching helps! the problem with getting mad at god is that that implies that he can answer prayers adn i am not so sure that he can...( even though no is also an answer)

moo

11-28-2004, 09:58 AM

"i'm not talking about praying to God to get me places. I'm talking about praying to god to help me with things that I just cant handle. i'm not talking about the car I want, or the guy I like, or getting a good grade on a test. I'm talking about other thins (that i dont really want to share right now) that arent like that at all.
God does do what He feels is best-then why doesnt it ever feel like that? sure we dont see the whole picture, but sometimes, the whole picture doesnt help"

Look, I don't know what "other thins" you're talking about, but maybe G-d is not helping you with them because they're not really problems. I'm not trying to diminish you feelings or worries, but just think about why you think these things are really problems. Maybe G-d is trying to tell you you need to change your priorities, your values, reconsider what you think is truly important. The same thing can be horrible from one perspective but amaziing from another one. Maybe you need a change in perspective. Maybe the things you see as problems really shouldn't bother you, and the things you see as important are really not. Once you realize this, all your problems may disappear, and G-d will in fact have answered your tefillot (interestingly enough, by not answering them).

"But u know they teach us in yeshiva, u pray for what u want, that doesnt make sense. We shouldnt be taught that, i mean obviosly we do pray for what we want and thats true, and we know that God can say no blah whatever, but so we really shouldnt look at praying as a way of asking for what we want. we should look at it as if its just something we do bc its right? bc thats what we are told? i dont know. this is a little confusing to me."

I have a lot of problems with what is taught, and not taught, and how it's taught in school. But just look at the word for davening: l'hitpallel. It's reflexive, meaning it goes back on you, not on someone else. And pallel mean to judge, so davening is self-judging, not request-making. Request-making you do to someone else. We have an opportunity three times a day to look ourselves over and say "Where am I at? What do I value? Why? What should I value?" You basically daven to get/keep your head on straight, and one way to do that is to request stuff from G-d, to remind us that we are dependent on him. We can forget that in the craziness of life, but that's only part of it. This is something we do just because it's right. So maybe instead of using davening only to go through your list of issues, use it to go over yourself, and maybe change something in yourself. Something small, but something important. Change your perspective, judge yourself honestly. You are the only one who can do that ('cept for G-d), so really you are the only one who can make your problems go away. Not rabbis or doctors or teachers or parents. Not even G-d. All they can do is give you some support, someone to lean on. You have to do the big stuff yourself.

whuknu

11-28-2004, 01:41 PM

well technically God cant change my perspective just cuz i have free will...=).
Sometimes the big stuff is to much to handle. i dont know how to deal with it.
While what u said is interesting to me, im not sure i agree with the first part. but i will keep it in mind. thank you.

J&B

12-01-2004, 02:07 PM

Whuknu,
Why is it that you are angry? Why is at G-d that you r angry?

You know, even in the holocaust, when nothing could have been worse, what kept many Jews from resigning to the faith Hitler (I"sh) reserved for them was the love to G-d and the hope that everything might end up differently. It wasn't hatred to G-d.

1) We should always assume that everything G-d does is good.
2) We should know that He is infinitelly smarter than us. He created us...
3) Understand that there is always some hope.

There is nothing to be angry about.

My sister died last year. I'm not mad at G-d. I somehow understand that it was something that needed to happen. I am just not smart enough to understand the entire plan... In fact I find support in G-d, not someone at whom to throw my frustrations.

Believe me, with this attitude I'm slowly overcoming it. Off course I would like my sister to be alive... But I also understand she is better off now...

whuknu

12-01-2004, 05:46 PM

first of all-even though we may not be as smart as God- its not that ur not smart enough to really understand His paln- but i think its more that u dont see the whole picture. I'm sorry about ur sister... u sound like a strong person.
Why I am angry at God is not something i'm so ready to share, but I think i agree with prune and booklet and the otehr ppl that sed getting mad at God is ok. I mean dont u ever get mad at ur parents? I dont know how the ppl in the holocaust were so strong. But dont u think that ever- the ones that did believen God that u spoke of that didnt get mad- they must have gotten a little bit mad once in a while? They ever say "why me"? dont u ever think "why me"? most of us have thought that way- even if it is a little selfish. A few yrs ago i was having difficulty coping with something and i spoke to a guidance counselor at school about it and she sed soemthing so dumb, she sed at least ur not sick or dying or nething. Well a few yrs later i did get sick (not anything really fatal but things that make my life that much more difficult) so now what? at least im not dead? so then when i am i should say what? at least im not...? oh wait there will be nothing left. J&B, its kind of hard to be hopeful when everything uve hoped for is ruined. I used to try to find support from God but i just feel like He keeps turning His back on me.

(btw this is not a difficulty believening in God bc thats not the problem)

J&B

12-01-2004, 08:42 PM

Truely, I'm not that strong... i keep remembering her every single day.

What you said of being smart enough to understand His plan.... Well, you can't even understand what are my plans! How could you possibly understand His????

So, what was it that hapenned that made you lose every hope? maybe you aren't hoping for the right things?

Most of the things we SHOULD hope for depend mostly on ourselves: Olam Haba, a closer link with G-d, our better and inproved self... Believe me, those things are what truely counts in life!!!

Off course hman nature will send you some sudden wish to be angry. You can control it. You can control it by thinking and reflecting. just like if I want to be angry at my parents I stop and think: what did they do that is so bad? is it hopeless? What did they mean by doing it? Am I getting anything by being angry? Magicly, the anger uses to dissapear :)

whuknu

12-01-2004, 08:52 PM

Remembering someone does not make u weak- in fact i believe it makes u stronger! I would think it is difficult to remember...

Well i dont know ur plans so i cant understnad urs. I wasnt saying that I udnerstand His- i just dont know His. BECAUSE I DONT SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE. Maybe if i did, then i would understand, or maybe i wouldnt understand.

when i say hoping- i dont mean for a new car- i mean sure id like a car but thats not the kind of thig im talking about. I already sed i dont really want to say (im jsut not ready to, i dk why) but believe me these arent things that arent important. its not about a guy or something liek that.

no one wishes to be angry.

kiyara

12-01-2004, 08:53 PM

yeah, but then, are you getting anything worthwhile by being calm and believeing in stuff tha there is no physical/rational proof for, what if it ends up being a waste of like and lifes pleasures?

booklet0519

12-01-2004, 09:17 PM

j adn b, i admire that you are able to put such a firm belief in god, but i cannot share your faith, adn i think the a whuknu can't either. [maybe soem of the ppl in the shoah didn't keep the faith becasuae of trust in the big picture , but beasue of the fatc that giving in would be a victory to hitler... i know that's the way my grandfather feels now...]

i am really sorry for your loss. if my sister died , i would get so mad at god.....

J&B

12-02-2004, 01:39 PM

yeah, but then, are you getting anything worthwhile by being calm and believeing in stuff tha there is no physical/rational proof for, what if it ends up being a waste of like and lifes pleasures?
If it ends up being a waste (i.e.: that after you die there is nothing else...) then you won't be there to have lost anything :cool: ; you won't be there to be sorry for all the stuff you didn't do!!!

J&B

12-02-2004, 01:55 PM

i am really sorry for your loss. if my sister died , i would get so mad at god.....
Thanks...

Let me share a thought.

Of course after my sister passed away, I was firstly in denial, then in despair and then in depression (I really don't wish it to anyone...)
Then, to recover from that frustration (when I realized nothing could be done) I tried to find the responsible for what had hapenned. First I blamed myself. For not being then for her, etc. But then I saw it wasn't true so I looked for some other scapegoath.
So, what is anger?
I think it is the feeling one feels while looking for someone whom to blame.

So to be mad/angry at G-d means in part to think that He is responsible for what hapenned. This part is totally OK. After all He IS responsible...

Now, the wrong part is to think that G-d could have done what He did in a better way. In the way that I think would lead to a better outcome. And here's the flaw.

Here is when you are comparing yourself to G-d and pretending that you could do a better job than Him. Obviously you would be wrong. It is in this phase that you should reflect on G-d's infinite and categorical superiority. He created us out of nothing...

Just a thought.

whuknu

12-02-2004, 02:08 PM

oh no u have it all wrong J&B- i do not think GOD FORBID that i could do a better job then God- other wise i woudlnt have to get so mad now would i? bc then i could just do it myself! someone sed earlier- i think it was moo, correct me if im wrong, but its actually realizing that God is part of ur everyday life (something like that). and i know that God is part of my everyday life, maybe i do get angry a little to often, but sometiems i get angry legitamitly...

booklet0519

12-02-2004, 11:14 PM

just remeber , god isn't evil ...man is the being with the capacity to do evil and we do, but it's not form god...

J&B

12-03-2004, 01:25 AM

whuknu, so there was some miscomunication here. I meant that if your anger is just saying that G-d is responsible for whatever happenned, it is completely OK. Just don't think that what happenned was not suposed to happen that way, and you are fine... But then again, if you think that what happenned was suposed to happen that way, what are you mad about?
...It's quite confusing...

whuknu

12-03-2004, 08:21 AM

lol. yeh im one of those confusing ppl who goes round and round in circles... btw i see what they did that they labeled u a college student J&B- thats what i was hoping theyd do something like that so i hope u do stick around cuz u do have valid points.

I know Gods not evil... im confused my self. Even if somethings supposed to happen it still can make u mad. when ur a little kid ur supposed to go to bed early, but it still makes u mad.

moo

12-04-2004, 09:02 PM

booklet said something cool. whatever evil there is comes from man, not G-d. I said in a previous post that the world works with cause and effect from what we do, not punishment from G-d as we usually think about it. But a)who says that me not getting my way is evil? and b) what did u mean before when u said u couldn't match J&B's faith in G-d?

Anyway, whuknu, u can't get mad at G-d too often. Anger flares up unannounced. I think J&B's definition of it is too narrow, not wrong, just not complete. I mean, even once u find soemone to blame u're still angry. it's what u do once u're angry that matters. You can feel anger, but u can also control it. like, u can get really pissed that u got a 70 on a test u studied really hard for, and u can either ram u're head into the wall to release your anger or you can take a deep breath and a few steps and put what happened into perspective. U can use anger to learn about why what happened made you angry, and u'll learn more about yourself, waht u value, what's important, where u're going, and why. I'm not saying u'll stop feeling angry. like u said "Even if somethings supposed to happen it still can make u mad." You've just gotta stay in control. I think being angry at G-d is only bad if it gets u to the point where u stop following the Torah and mitzvot. If you're not there, then don't freak about getting angry with G-d.

whuknu

12-04-2004, 10:36 PM

ok i dont think that God is evil and that all evil comes from him.

"I said in a previous post that the world works with cause and effect from what we do, not punishment from G-d as we usually think about it."

Rabbi Shu sed something similar to that. But sometimes things do come from God- like an earthquake- did man do that? no. but im not talking about an earthquake. but saying something like that means to me that for example the suicide bombers in israel killing jews is not a punishment from God but simply that the palestinians chose that they want them dead-right? is this what ur saying to me? ONLY when there is a drought in Israel, and other natural things like that, those are punishments from Hashem, but the suicide bombers, they arent a punishment from God? I guess alot of what ive learnt is lies. bc i learned when an enemy attacks, they are sent from God bc we did something wrong- dont u remeber in tanach whenever the jews were led astray Hashem sent an enemy-who were HUMANS who i guess simply made a choice- it wasnt God sent? if this is the case- wow my teachers have been lying to me. but i believe that the choices one man makes that affects another man in a way that is terrible- like for example one man decides to murder someone- well that affects the victim and his family... in a bad way unless they didnt like the victim but thats a diferent story. soooo... was the murderer God sent? because the murderer CHOSE to murder the victim.

I dont mean to sound so angry if i came off that way... i just am not understanding... Rabbi Shu I also want to know what u have to say about that please.

BTW- i dont want to stop doing the mitzvot- but alot of the time i feel like why should i do them? i hate davening bc i feel like God isnt listening.

booklet0519

12-05-2004, 01:35 AM

moo. that's a really good point...

whuknu

12-09-2004, 09:33 PM

anyone got a response?

booklet0519

12-09-2004, 10:14 PM

has anyone here not ever gotten mad at god???

2face78

12-09-2004, 10:26 PM

ivw never been mad at God but i dont necisserily think its a bad thing. not everything God does we understand and its fair to get angry.
IM OUT

PrUnE

12-09-2004, 10:57 PM

To whoever was sayin, that people can't do a better job then god, I think I can, if it was up to me I would make sure no one starves and everyone gets everything they want so that way everybody wins and no one loses.

whuknu

12-10-2004, 08:01 AM

thank u 2face- i agree.
prune-u think u can do better than God? I jsut dont see how thats possible. God would feed those ppl if He wanted to- maybe its a punishment?
no body has been able to answer me about my post from a few days ago about whether things such as the holocaust are a punishment from Hashem or just the doings of man.
u see prune- everyone has been saying to me- we dont see the whole picture, we dont understand why God does things. Id rather look at bad things as a punishment, bc its the only thing i can possibly udnerstand.

on a similar yet diferent note:
my sister was a counselor one summer in a day camp and she had a camper who had a few problems. one day he came to camp and sed "i hate Hashem, when im the next Hashem, things will be diferent" now this kids must have had issues, but i feel like some of us are saying the same things as this 5 or 6 yr old kid. and like this kid, we cant figure out the world. we are jsut as helpless and everything.
prune, if u can feed the hungry, then why dont u? its as simple as volunteering for meals on weels or donating food to a food drive. u dont have to be God to do that

booklet0519

12-10-2004, 10:44 AM

i think that being mad at god requires the acknowlegdement that he has control over our lives... if you don;t accept that, there is no one to be angry with...

maybe god just gave us good/evil adn withdrew.... then you can't get mad at him.. it would be like getting mad at your car that the toater broke

randomness123

12-10-2004, 01:55 PM

i once started thinking...everything is from hashem---the guy that hit your car, thats also from hashem--i think getting angry at him is only natural, especially when theres no one else to blame, yell at Him if He's the root of all things good and bad just know that it ont get you anywhere, but if it even enters your mind to yell at hmi, he knows anyway, He knwos ppl get angry--He created them, but its us to us to deal with our anger responsibly

PrUnE

12-11-2004, 04:38 PM

You know what I would do, i would make sure not one person starves, not person is poor, everyone is loved, no one has family problems, In my world no one would die, everyone would be in peace, in my world EVERYBODY WINS!

whuknu

12-11-2004, 10:02 PM

"i think that being mad at god requires the acknowlegdement that he has control over our lives... if you don;t accept that, there is no one to be angry with..."

booklet- so then is there free will or not according to what ur saying?

prune- if everyone lived for ever than that would ruin the circle of life. ppl need to die. otherwise the world would just fill and fill with ppl. in a perfect world we woudl be so bored

randomness123

12-12-2004, 09:35 PM

prune- ever seen the movie "bruce almighty" b/c there it shows what hapens if every1 gets wut they want...although it'd be nice, theres no such thing as a perfect world. in my wrld everything would be mostly as they are now, but less issues like drugs, STDs and just all the things ppl have a hadr time dealing with would be gone. and NO SUICIDES

booklet0519

12-14-2004, 11:53 AM

i don't know if there is free will. personally, i believe in free will over divine direction...

whuknu

12-14-2004, 04:28 PM

The argument goes like this:
God knows everything that is going to happen and He can control it (bc if He couldnt then He wouldnt be God)
VS
Every human has free will
so which is it? does man have free will or does God control all? is it half/half- someone gave me an explanation once- im not sure if i agree with it or not but here it goes- humans have free will but lets say for example a man has two choices- maybe God doesnt know what the choice will be, but for both choices God knows what will happen. But does God know the ending to the story? no one knows- we can aregue about this for days, but it would be useless so lets not bother... I heard Rabbi Shu talk at my school a few times- but one time he spoke about how this woman who survived the holocaust did not blame Hashem for what happened to her. but if one says that this is not Hashem's doing, does this mean Hashem just watched as and evil man killed his chosen ppl?????? other wise i would think this is a punishment from Hashem! The jewish ppl must have been doing something wrong.

booklet0519

12-15-2004, 10:50 PM

i don't believe in evil as punishment for sin. i think if we were persecuted, it is bc ppl decided to kill us.6 million ppl dont die bc of a sin.... i really like the answer your friends told you whuknu... that makes a lot of sense to me. i also don't believe we are the chosen ppl.. someone famous( ???) said that we are not the chosen ppl, we are the choosing ppl....

whuknu

12-15-2004, 11:20 PM

booklet- i think u might have misunderstood me-

1- maybe not EACH Jew that died in the holocaust died bc of a sin he did but rather bc the Jewish nation as a whole was doing something wrong- just like today perhaps- u see we jews cant seem to get along- we fight over everything- how to live religiously and so on- so maybe God doesnt think we are so worthy of having Israel so therefore he sent us terrorists to terrorize us and cuz us grief so much so that we feel as if we are being punished at least i do. but also in a way this punishment may help bring ppl together- whu knows? but either way I dont think God would let some one kill 6 million ppl for no good reason- the same way i dont think He let thousands of ppl die on 9/11 for no reason- if its not a punishment, its Definetly some sort of message. but I still think it is a form of punishment.
2- i didnt say we arent the chosen ppl- I think it sez we are in the Torah- even if it doesnt it does say we are ohr lagoyim- while that doesnt mean chosen ppl we are a light onto other nations- i take this to mean we are supposed to act responsibly and act in accordance with the Torah-therefore ohr lagoyim-they see how one should act from us- if we dont keep the torah than how can they see us? so of course Hashem should punish us!

whuknu

12-15-2004, 11:20 PM

not that I think we should be punished i just meant that if we dont act the way we should...

luckst4rs

12-16-2004, 12:37 PM

well on the free will vs God knows everything i think it can be both. like He knows what you will choose and what will happen in the end but it's not because He decided it but just because He KNOWS that's what WE are going to choose. so in the end we are choosing what we want but God still knows what that's gonna be in the end. He KNOWs then ending, but he is not necessarily the one making the decisions.... its kind of circular but i think its possible.

whuknu

12-16-2004, 02:15 PM

thats interesting- im not sure i agree but its an interesting view.

J&B

12-16-2004, 09:02 PM

luckst4rs, u r not the first one to ask that (forgive me) silly question. In fact, it was adressed by Maimonides, some 900 years ago.
He says that we cannot understand how G-d knows. btw, he is not subject to time, so his reality (his knowledge) is not parallel to our reality. In other words, just to put it in some way, for G-d, creation is hapening now and the future is happening now... I hope u understnd what i mean.

whuknu, I agree with in ALL what you said :)
let me add though:
1) even though we do believe everything that happens has a reason, we are not the ones to say what was the exact cause (for ex. it is terribly wrong to say that the holocaust happened for X reason...)
2) it is very interesting that we are the only people ever to claim to be the chosen people. My question to the christians: why don't YOU say that you are the chosen people? -obviously the answer is tht to b the chosen also means to have certain responsibilities, to follow certain laws... ;)

whuknu

12-16-2004, 09:51 PM

christians have laws of their own J&B. Muslims have laws of their own as well. and I would assume that oppression happens to the Jews when they are deserving of a punishment- thats what happens in the Tanach- Bnei Yisroel do something wrong and God punishes. what other reason would the holocaust happened? bc of a decision a man make- (forgive me rabbi shu and everyone who agrees with the whole bad things happen cuz someone decided to do something and so on...) fine maybe something bad like a minor car accident happens cuz u decided to go a diferent way to work or whtvr (which i still dont agree with i think it is a punishment but whtvr) but 6 million jews dieing? they must have been doing something wrong! i mean im not trying to say that they were all evil ppl but obviosly something was not right! just like today- we must be doing soemthing wrong.

whuknu

12-16-2004, 09:51 PM

PS: J&B- i thought u left im glad to see u havent left!

booklet0519

12-18-2004, 11:05 PM

i don'tknow.. if i think about it long enough... i conclude that evil is bc of sin, but i just can;t think like that. i end if all twisted after thinking about.. it

whuknu

12-19-2004, 03:07 PM

judaism is very twisted at times...

J&B

12-20-2004, 01:28 AM

PS: J&B- i thought u left im glad to see u havent left! I'm gald I'm welcomed! Thanks!http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

booklet0519

12-21-2004, 10:16 AM

all religion gets twisted at times

whuknu

12-21-2004, 08:07 PM

yes they do. actually booklet i think it was u that sed that God doesnt have human emotions. so i asked a friend today his opinion- he is a baal teshuva and still has a long way to go but here is what he sed- he sed that God does have feelings - just not human feelings- what does that mean? it means that when it sez in the torah vyichar af Hashem- Hashem felt something that He just couldnt explain to us- so he used a feeling that was closest to it- anger- such as when u love someone its so hard to describe the feeling but we use the word love to describe it cuz its the closest thing- i mean come on- what is love? so i foudn this an interesting opinion and i thought id share it with u. i dont know if i agree but i thoguht of it this way - when an adult is angry with a small child- he doesnt say exactly what he might be feeling (he might feel more than anger or soemthing but the kid might not understand) so he just sez to the kid i am angry- that is what the kid will understand...dont knwo if it makes sense to u but it does to me.

whuknu

12-21-2004, 11:41 PM

You know how its bad to get angry and ppl say u should ask God to help u not get angry? (well ive heard it neways) thing is- getting angry i feel sort of helps, cuz then i find some sort of way to realease the tension- so why would i not want to get angry?

J&B

12-21-2004, 11:56 PM

whuknu

12-22-2004, 12:06 AM

lost33

12-22-2004, 12:21 AM

God does not have "feelings" but rather we project these feelings onto God. we are human and thus cannto understand God when we say God has feelings it is because we cant understand the way God does things. the idea of God having emotion is a human concpet, we place this human idea onto God.

whuknu

12-22-2004, 12:50 AM

ok i got that aready- that doesnt answer my question though...

J&B

12-22-2004, 12:53 AM

so then if i am doing mitzvot for myself and it has nothing to do with God and He doesnt care about me or what i do- since caring is a human thing- then i can do whatever i please? right? and then when i daven- sicne its is purely for myself- my relationship with God is onesided- so whats the point? im just talking and talking and He just doesnt care! in that case - whats the point? i can do what i want when i want- my parents care abotu what i do- they have emotions- so i wont disrespect them- but God? you just told me He doesnt care- So i dont have to daven, i dont have to to keep kosher... GOD MUST HAVE EMOTIONS OR ELSE HE WOUDLNT CARE WHEN YOU SIN OR I SIN- AND HE DOES CARE BC OTHERWISE THESE THINGS WOULD NOT BE PUNISHABLE! one is only punished bc someone is hurt by something- u talk in calss that hurts the teacher and the rest of the class- therefore u r punished. bc the teacher has feelings and so does the class. firstly, i agree 100% with lost33. no1 could have said it any better.

Now, whuknu, u have some very good questions...
You r saying that caring=emotions. g-d doesn't have them, therefore G-d doesn't care...
I need to think about it... I don't know http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif...

[Just to cheer myself up, understanding G-d is the most advanced topic in Jewish studies. It's never fully done. And only those in a VERY high level can get into it http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif.]

whuknu

12-22-2004, 12:56 AM

and if God doesnt have feelings- then i can get mad all i want i guess couldnt i?

whuknu

12-22-2004, 01:09 AM

[Just to cheer myself up, understanding G-d is the most advanced topic in Jewish studies. It's never fully done. And only those in a VERY high level can get into it http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif.]
whats that to mean?

J&B

12-22-2004, 01:16 AM

whats that to mean? just not to feel so bad after not having an answer for a topic i was defending so convinced of my logic... It's called a justification http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif. So I made it not to look so bad I didn't have an answer.

I need to think about the subject, but I'm not giving up!
(btw, it's 2:15 AM, and I'm only up so I'll sleep the whole day tomorrow and not feel the fast...)

whuknu

12-22-2004, 01:42 AM

im only up bc i should be studying and im not ready for sleep- not not ready for bed- just not sleep- anyways im looking forward to hearing from u.

booklet0519

12-23-2004, 11:25 AM

i don't know.. a) maybe god does care
b) mayeb he does hav emotions..
let me think about it

whuknu

12-23-2004, 02:14 PM

i dont think its something we can just think about and tehn have the answer...

J&B

12-23-2004, 06:23 PM

We should try though... it's a great question! I'll discuss it with my dad in shabbos.

whuknu

12-23-2004, 11:02 PM

what? about getting mad at God or His emotions?

J&B

12-23-2004, 11:51 PM

He not having emotions V.S. He caring for us...

J&B

12-26-2004, 11:24 PM

so then if i am doing mitzvot for myself and it has nothing to do with God and He doesnt care about me or what i do- since caring is a human thing- then i can do whatever i please? right? and then when i daven- sicne its is purely for myself- my relationship with God is onesided- so whats the point? im just talking and talking and He just doesnt care! in that case - whats the point? i can do what i want when i want- my parents care abotu what i do- they have emotions- so i wont disrespect them- but God? you just told me He doesnt care- So i dont have to daven, i dont have to to keep kosher... GOD MUST HAVE EMOTIONS OR ELSE HE WOUDLNT CARE WHEN YOU SIN OR I SIN- AND HE DOES CARE BC OTHERWISE THESE THINGS WOULD NOT BE PUNISHABLE! one is only punished bc someone is hurt by something- u talk in calss that hurts the teacher and the rest of the class- therefore u r punished. bc the teacher has feelings and so does the class.
Finally! i looked it up...

My new stance is that we should define the term "to care" (as well as "to love", etc.)

When we attribute any pathos (state of soul. i.e.: love, hate. etc.) to G-d, we are doing it having in mind the final outcome of it. Let me explain myself...

When we say that Hashem is angry is because we know that the further "reaction" was a punishment. When we say that he "loves" is because we see a final product in the form of gratuite (free) giving, which in humans is something that can only exist if driven by love.

However, these are only humans translations to human terms, for the sake of making G-d more real in our lives. We must not forget that nothing really drives hashem to do what he does but his divine will. If he gives a punishment it is because he wishes so; not because he is "mad" and he needs to satisfy that anger...

So, does G-d have emotions? No.
Does G-d care about us? It depends how do you define "care".

whuknu

12-27-2004, 10:37 AM

So in other words- I dont need to be keeping all these mitzvot except for my own good and therefore if i dont want to keep them its ok?

J&B

12-27-2004, 01:07 PM

It's "OK" in a sense that the only consequences your acts might have will fall on yourself. Yeh, that way - "It's OK".

whuknu

12-27-2004, 02:07 PM

so then why is there the punishment of Karet?

J&B

12-27-2004, 04:38 PM

so then why is there the punishment of Karet?I did't really understand the question... Maybe this helps. Karet is also a 'natural' consequence of our acts. G-d, willingly, does not award Olam HaBah to whoever gets Karet... What's the problem??? :confused:

whuknu

12-27-2004, 05:25 PM

if God doesnt really care about what we do and the mitzvot are for our own well being- why do we need karet?

booklet0519

12-28-2004, 10:06 AM

karet was invented by people to try adn put fear into people who believed in a god with emotions

whuknu

12-28-2004, 02:29 PM

karet was invented by people to try adn put fear into people who believed in a god with emotions
and what may i ask is ur source for that?

WhoAmI

12-28-2004, 07:00 PM

karet was invented by people??? how do you explain the tons and tons of time its mentioned in the torah? the only question is as to what its definiton is

whuknu

12-28-2004, 08:07 PM

karet= death by the hands of God- what other definition is there?

J&B

12-28-2004, 09:37 PM

karet means "cutting". It is the worse punishment of all. It means that after we physically die, we are "cut" from any continuity. In other words, when we die --- we die.

whuknu

12-29-2004, 10:50 AM

so our souls no longer exist? doesnt seem so bad to me.

booklet0519

12-29-2004, 04:06 PM

sorry. i meant to type could have been invented by...

i know it is mentioned in the torah. there are people who think that the torah was written by man.

it was just an idea... for consideration, but i am more than willing to withdraw it

J&B

12-29-2004, 04:51 PM

so our souls no longer exist? doesnt seem so bad to me.It's worse tan being punished short-term (gehinom), and then live 'forever'! You r then no different than a horse... both physical... both death...

whuknu

12-29-2004, 04:57 PM

horse? im confused. what does a horse have to do with nething?

J&B

12-29-2004, 04:58 PM

It was an example of a creature that has no Olam Habah... That just dies --- and dies.

whuknu

12-29-2004, 05:06 PM

why? are all animals like that? or just them? if so what did the horses specifically do to deserve that?

J&B

12-29-2004, 05:17 PM

They didn't do anything wrong... or right...

Olam Haba is the survival of ur intellect (whatever that means). Animals don't have it. Humans have it but may kill it by deserving karet for example.

A wicked Jew that didn't get Karet, is wicked (i think i mentioned that b4 --- lol), and dies, we believe he receives some kind of punishment (whatever that mighht b) and then still gets his olam Haba!

booklet0519

12-29-2004, 09:21 PM

do we ahev to beleive that there is an after wordl

J&B

12-29-2004, 11:27 PM

do we have to beleive that there is an after wordlI don't think you do... You do need to believe in Thiyat Hametim. But, for me, the after world is something that comes by reason!
(dn't wanna repeat a thread... :
http://www.thelockers.net/forum/showthread.php?t=378&page=4&pp=10 )

WhoAmI

12-30-2004, 06:51 PM

there are a whole bunch of opinions as to what karet is...also mean child dying in your lifetime, you dying early OR loss of olam haba..so you never kniow what it could be

booklet0519

12-30-2004, 09:18 PM

which is only a punishment for those who believe in olam ha ba

WhoAmI

01-02-2005, 03:54 PM

no, b/c it could mean having your kids die in your lfietime or you dying early. nothin to do with olam haba. i think believeing in Jusdasim is believeing in olam haba, b/c otherwise why would i want to do mitzvot? we dont see the benefits of it until the world to come!

booklet0519

01-02-2005, 04:25 PM

not true.. its just the the benefits are sipoosed to be bigger in olam haba, but this world is better!

whuknu

01-02-2005, 05:13 PM

maybe we could get back on topic if u guys dont mind... im still having some trouble with the whole reason i started this thread! i mean maybe its a little tiny bit better- but not a whole lot.

WhoAmI

01-03-2005, 01:02 AM

well olam haba has a conceptual idea of pleasure and a state of feelings we cant imagine....
srry whuknu
----but anyway, it ok to get mad at God, i think he epects it but as long as it doesnt trun into something so long term or total hate

booklet0519

01-03-2005, 05:42 AM

i agree with who am i.. getting mad at god shouldnt be an issue, its when it becomes a hatred that it is a problem ( in my opinion)

J&B

01-03-2005, 11:20 AM

whuknu

01-03-2005, 04:23 PM

I have been so eager defending the view of not to get mad cuz we have the following statement: "Kol Hakoes Keiloo Oved Avodah Zarah" (whoever gets angry [at G-d?] is like doing idolatry)...

So ideally, we should NEVER get angry. Ideally.

The reason behind that statement is that when u get angry you r implying that G-d is not true, is not righteous. That some other force made this thing that made u mad happen...

If we understand that G-d wnts our own good, that everything He does is good (it might be impossible for us to understand why it is good), we would never get angry at nothing. If when you lose a plane you immediately know that it was going to crash and you were going to die, you wouldnt get mad, would you?

What can I say... I also did get mad at G-d sometimes... But i do regret it! I think it was wrong.
well unfortuntely we dont live in an ideal world. I think that getting angry at God is implying that HE IS THE force making things happen that make u mad! Just bc what He does may be part of a bigger picture, doesnt mean really anything- u can still get mad- think back to when ur parents would punish u for doing something and u couldnt understnad why they punished u so u got mad. and what if the plane doesnt crash? what if u just missed ur plane for no reason? I once was supposedto go visit my grandparents and something happened and i missed my plane- the plane landed safely and everything- nothing went wrong. i just missed my plane is all (i was younger and didnt really care then but thats a different story).
Sometimes i regret being angry at God and sometimes i dont.

booklet0519

01-03-2005, 05:52 PM

we arent perfect, adger sis natural.. that doesnt mean we should just be like ok, i gotta get angry, but anger cant reeally be denied.. it is dangoreous for ones health

J&B

01-03-2005, 06:01 PM

whuknu, ur example of getting mad at your folks is fine... you still call this madness "childish" don't u? You still would say that such anger is immature!

regarding wht u said about getting mad=recognizing G-d, as opposed to getting mad=Avodah zarah... I really dk what to say... good point! I'll need to think of another way of understanding that rabbinic statement.

whuknu

01-03-2005, 06:44 PM

booklet- agreed.

whuknu, ur example of getting mad at your folks is fine... you still call this madness "childish" don't u? You still would say that such anger is immature!

regarding wht u said about getting mad=recognizing G-d, as opposed to getting mad=Avodah zarah... I really dk what to say... good point! I'll need to think of another way of understanding that rabbinic statement.
it may be childish but sometimes ya just need to be angry- its hard to be happy and ok with things all the time. my problem might be that I get mad at God TOO often.

The thing is- it started as i thought that the way my life was going was awful- so at first i simply denied that God existed- but then i realized that wasnt possible. so i went back to believening God never thinking that anything bad was from Him. but its not like that... things are from Him (i dont really want to say what im talking about...sry). So i was just angry at God in general. Now i get angry often.... wow i sound crazy. its not like i throw glass (i dont get violent angry lol). I just get mad and i never understand...

anyways- where is that statement from? it doesnt make sense to me. and if its true, then most of us are guilty of it and deserve whtvr punishment is given for avodah zara... makes no sense.

lost33

01-03-2005, 06:51 PM

dunno i dont get angry at God bec i figure i am just a human i will never understand why God does what He does, there is a reaosn for evrything that happens in life, God has a reason for evrything that happens and i will never be able to understand them so its a wste of time and energy to get angry yuo will never understand so geting angry ont do anything. take the enegry u wsaate on anger and try to solve ur problems

whuknu

01-03-2005, 06:56 PM

u ever try to talk to ur friend about something that they did that bothered u but they would listen so u get angry at them and once the friend saw that u were angry at them they tried to solve whtvr it was that was making u mad? Well maybe in my head its kinda like that- I feel like God doesnt listen to me when i daven, so i then i get mad, and maybe i think then He will listen. Even if He doesnt, sometimes it makes me feel a little better, when i um (no laughing at me) "talk" to Him about what bothers me.

lost33

01-03-2005, 07:08 PM

dunno i geuss that makes sense but the only danger is that ur anger towrds God can lead to dnagerous conclusions. perhaps one day ull be so overwhkemed wiht this anger, that u havent tried to unerstand or fight, that ull decide not to beleive in God anymore? dunno just a thought

whuknu

01-03-2005, 07:32 PM

i highly doubt that would happen- my belief and faith in God are pretty strong.

in any event- i told u i dont get psycho angry. i guess i have to try to control my anger and find better way to deal with it.

lost33

01-03-2005, 08:05 PM

makes sense

WhoAmI

01-04-2005, 05:56 PM

its only natural to get angry-- maybe witho0ut anyone to blame we look to God. You know what, lost made snse, we should put the effort from blaming God into maybe blaming ourselves and fixing whatever has gone wrong

whuknu

01-04-2005, 07:32 PM

look i know that some maybe even most of my problems are my own fault- but believe me- alot arent.

lost33

01-04-2005, 11:01 PM

either way it doesnt really matter who is at fault for the problems, they wont be solved in any way by getting angry. u say that it gives u some sort of relief, but its not solving the problem, i mean if u cheat on a test sure short term ull get a good grade by in the long term ur really cheating urslef and ur not laerning anything. same here if u resort to anger ur just pushing ur problems farther inside ur not dealing wiht them head on or internalizing them, that is the only way to solve ur problems whatever they may be.

J&B

01-05-2005, 01:18 AM

so maybe that's what chaza"l meant when they compared anger to avodah zarah... they are both useless! in both you lose control of urself! in both you aren't perceiving G-d in the right way!

whuknu

01-05-2005, 09:01 AM

lost- maybe, but what if u do deal with them but they still upset u?

so maybe that's what chaza"l meant when they compared anger to avodah zarah... they are both useless! in both you lose control of urself! in both you aren't perceiving G-d in the right way!
thats interesting i guess J&B

lost33

01-05-2005, 05:46 PM

whuknu im not gonna say i neevr get angry that i am always cool and collected, far from it. but when i am angry ill stop and ask myslef were is this getting me, why am i leting this affect me? it doesnt do anyhting it dsoesnt help me in any way. and u know what it doesn talways work and for the most part ill still be angry but u satrt to relaize that sometimes u hahve to look out for urslef only and screw the rest of the world ie who cares what they are trying to do to u, or whats happening around u, who cares why alkl these bad things are happening. suck it up and move on, stop dwelling on what happened, what iu should have done, why oit happened. and just move on with ur life, whateever it is it will be dealt wiht in its due time. dont care about what other pple r doing to u or around u they will get their comeuppance eventually. there is no reason to blame God for any of this, their is no reaosn to assign blame to anyone, just look at ur life objectivally see what u need to do to deal wiht the problem and move on dont let nager get in the way of ur life.

dunno this is just the way i see my problems, i dunno wat ur dealing wiht so i dont know if this could work but try it.

J&B

01-05-2005, 07:31 PM

(everything that Lost33 said)....Therefore, we should focus our attention and energies in things in which we can actually make a difference. I won't wander the whole day worrying and being mad for the Tsunami. There is nothing i can do about it (besides obviously giving money...). I'd rather concentrate on studying hard and getting good grades, which depends on me. That's why, as Lost33 said, getting mad for what happened is useless and senseless. We cannot change the past, not even by getting angry. We should focus on getting over it by improving our present and future.

Lost33: Why that name??? I mean, you seem to be like the guy who knows his way better than anyone else!!! "Lost"? :rolleyes:

lost33

01-05-2005, 07:58 PM

hahaha thanx J&B dunno y i came up wiht the name, i mean its not like i always knew the answers to evryhting hahah lets just say it takes some of us longer to realize that they are not as lost as they assume

to whuknu
the way u respond to the events around u depends on what is happening, to get mad at God for bad things that happen in the world is really useles bec we will never understand why God does what he does, ex: one of my friends went to a funeral for his uncle, who was a really good guy who got killed in a car accident, his aunt got up at the funeraul and said that she doesnt blame God for what happened bec she realizes that what is happeneing now is just the small corner of threads on a tapestry, only if u take a step back and look at the whole tapestry will u realize what truly is going on. that is the way we should look at life.