Drug bust 42 kids busted, 37 from [local yeshiva high school]

[PrUnE]

The Gang's All Here, and All Under Arrest at Party in New Jersey

By MICHELLE O'DONNELL
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gif
Published: November 22, 2004
The New York Times



http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/dropcap/i.gift was a familiar weekend-night call to a suburban police department: a teenagers' party at a nearby house was getting loud and rowdy, and the neighbors wanted officers to investigate.

When the officers arrived at the two-story home in suburban N.J., they said they discovered much of the cause for the raucousness: dozens of open beer containers and several marijuana water pipes in plain view inside the open front door. The smell of marijuana smoke was pervasive, the police said.

So the officers did what has become part of their routine at large house parties where there is evidence of drugs and alcohol being consumed by minors: they arrested all 42 teenagers at the home.

"We were lucky," Detective Lt. Craig Handschuch said last night. "No one tried to run out of the house. No one got in a car and drove away."

Detective Handschuch said it appeared that many of the teenagers were under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Fifteen 18- and 19-year-olds were charged with possession of marijuana, drug paraphernalia and consumption of an alcoholic beverage. Twenty-seven teenagers ages 14 to 17 were accused of the same charges, he said.

The party was held at the home of *********, 18, a student at the [local yeshiva high school], whose parents were away for the weekend, Detective Handschuch said. ********* was also charged with serving alcohol to minors.

While 42 arrests at a single location might draw some attention in other places, Detective Handschuch said that the police regularly broke up large parties in the area, and often made numerous arrests.

Most of the minors were released to their parents at the home. The 18- and 19-year-olds, who were charged as adults, were taken to the police station for processing before being released to their parents, Detective Handschuch said. "We made sure everyone was released to a responsible adult," he said.

[luckst4rs]

number one- he graduated from the school already. so it was wrong to say he was a student there. also it only was a big deal BECAUSE of which school it was. that stuff happens to kids all the time. only now people are making a huge deal out of it. my friends were there. i was supposed to go but last minute i didn't. it'll blow over soon....

[PrUnE]

The weird thing is, that no one from my grade was there and usally everyone from my grade is there, lol.

[Icegal104]

ok umm.. its a big deal b/c kids from that school did get arrested. it would never happen in my school, where no kids would even think of going to a party where theres drugs and beer, its such a big deal b/c a lot of jewish kids got in trouble. they shouldnt have done it in the 1st place. anyway, just my opinion on the whole thing.

[Icegal104]

they really also put out a horrible reputation for that school now. which type of parent will send their kid to that school now??? only a crazy one.

[luckst4rs]

yea i highly doubt you know your school that well. i'm sure there are a few people in your school who would go to a party like that. maybe not your friends but someone. also yea they got arrested and some people will be totally screwed. but kids get arrested for drug use and posession and usually get screwed by their parents more than the law. so its a big deal because of the school and the whole rich jewish kids. otherwise if it were some public school kids in a ****ty neighborhood, the newspapers wouldnt have bothered.

[PrUnE]

well yea, i guess, but the guy who hosted the party (I'm not allowed to say even though he graduted last year) might like go to jail for a couple months for servin alchol to minors. There are probably gonna be alot of court cases against the state or something for most of the kids who did pot.

[whuknu]

Icegal- i dont know what school u go to but i agree with luckst4rs. There are most definetly kids in ur school who do drugs and drink and even have sex. Yeshivas, just like public schoolsm have drug problems. WE ARE NOT THE PERFECT WORLD. The kids in ur schol just havent gotten caught yet. These kids didnt think b4 getting loud. The thing is, this is not expected of such privliged students such as ourselves- and that is why it was in the papers. I'm not saying that these students shouldnt get in trouble, cuz i really dk, but the point is they did make a chilul Hashem, bc while we know that there is a problem with drugs in the yeshiva world- the outside world does not know that.

[Icegal104]

its cuz it was jewish kids. its a disgrace to that school now that kids from there were doin drugs

[luckst4rs]

kids do ****. adults know that. and if they expect these kids not to then they are stupid. my parents know i do stuff. they don't know the details but they aren't dumb. drinking and drugging are so common these days among teens that you really don't think about getting in trouble over it. we worry about making curfew when going to a party, not the police busting in on us and getting arrested. so yea the kids there just weren't careful enough and i'm not saying they should definately get away with it but it's what happens. this shouldn't be a big shock to anyone. it's nothing new.

[PrUnE]

Its just a shock because 42 kids got arrested.

[kiyara]

well maybe it shouldnt be a surprise, but its still a bad thing. i dont need to enumerate why.

as for that school - yeah - i cant imagine anyone in their right mind sending their kids tehre, its not the first time one of these scandalous things has been exposed regarding that school. oh well.
and i know im sheltered- but imagine like....being a 14 yr old freshman and getting arrested. pretty scary!
but then, its weird. bc i also know kids in high school that regularly smoke pot etc. and they dont get caught. its very weird. uch.
i wonder how they dealt with that in the school, and spoke to the kids who werent there/were going to go/left earleir or whatever.

[magniv123]

youre all totally missing the point

i dont think the main piont was that they were jewish or cuz they were from a local yeshiva. i think its the proportion of the situation

42 kids!!!!!!!!!!!! 15 taken to the station in handcuffs!

do you get that that is a big group and THATS why it made it to national news! i saw it on TV and i also saw it made the New York Times.

and ya, these parties do go on all the time, this one just happened to be unlucky enough to get caught. i think its an issue ( idunno if bad or good) that has been swept under the rug for long enough and now its surfaced and its hitting the headlines. thats why its a big deal.

magniv!

[ColdTruth]

First of all, the topic of this blog is wrong. 37 of the kids were not from the local yeshiva high school in question. The number was more like 20-25. The rest were from colleges and other high schools.

There's really only one other point I want to make. First, as many of you have already stated, these parties and this type of behavior as a whole occurs on a weekly basis. It is unfortunate however, that this party is the one of which an example will be made. My reason for that is the following. This party was a relatively tame one in comparison with those that take place every weekend of the year. 42 is not such a large number for a party and there were no hardcore drugs at this home. At this point, the community can do two things. It can react to the media and the hype surrounding this event, or it can try to understand that this party is the bottom rung on a ladder of yeshiva-world issues. I get the feeling that people now think that since one party was busted, the police and the community have gotten to the root of the problem. This could not be more incorrect. Look, the students aren't stupid. These parties won't stop, kids will just be more careful. This event has to serve as the impetus that finally spurs the community to take effective preemptive measures against this entire lifestyle. Hopefully this will be a wakeup call to principals, rabbis, and parents that something needs to be done before our youth find themselves in another one of these predicaments.

Always bringin'
Cold Truth

[whuknu]

Icegal- kids from there were already doing drugs- they didn’t just start sat night believe it or not. Yes it is a disgrace to that school, but it was b4 this too. But it is also a disgrace (in my opinion ) to the entire orthodox community.

I know my parents wouldn’t be happy if they found out that I was doing drugs and stuff- they know I don’t, and they would be so disappointed otherwise.

Kiyara- b4 this drug bust- parents weren’t thinking about this so the students that go there now- they shouldn’t feel like there parents made a bad decision. Also, the parents shouldn’t not send their kids there cuz of this, bc i remember when I was in middle school, iheard about drug busts at another local yeshiva high school, and guess what? That school still exists and many students go there and love it. And there are still drugs there.

"It was a familiar weekend-night call to a suburban police department: a teenagers' party at a nearby house was getting loud and rowdy, and the neighbors wanted officers to investigate. " notice the fourth word- familiar! this is something these cops respond too often! meaning- they break up these partires often. not just yeshiva students.

and the other scandolous things at this particular school- disregard them for now- they have nothing to do with this situation! i know what ur talking about -but they have nothing at all to do with these students.

Ct- hard core or not- it was still illegal.

[luckst4rs]

it's my school and they are responding to the media and its ridiculous. my friends got unlucky. but i know we will continue to go to parties. we will continue to drink and smoke.
this has nothing to do with the school. i've been to the same parties with more kids at the houses of public school kids and people who don't go to my school. this happens all the time and if people think badly of the school more than any other school then that's stupid bc any other school will have the same kind of kids.....

[Icegal104]

that school has the worst reputation thats why ppl think badly about it- just in case ure wondering

[luckst4rs]

yea well screw what people are saying. i know we have a ****ty reputation but i like it. honestly i think all these schools are the same. we have some amazing teachers and some clueless ones, we have horrible kids and reallly cool ones. so yea. its high school. we have smart kids, dumb ones. people who do drugs and kids who haven't even had the oppurtunity to. just people tend to focus on the bad. you can spend years working up to a good rep but in 5 seconds get a bad one.....

[kiyara]

maybe from my own knowledge and what siome of u are saying, its that that school is more like a typical [diverse?] public school than a yeshiva. many yeshivot are insanely hon\mogeneous and sheltered compared to public school(esp the same sex ones)

[luckst4rs]

well i guess but from other kids i know in yeshivas (maybe not other tri-state area ones but in other places) it's normal. sex and drugs are more normal than ever. public school kids are still more hardcore with it than yeshiva kids but its still there. i don't do stuff because i go to that school. any yeshiva i would be in i would do it. and i've done it with kids from other yeshivas. so the excuse that maybe just this school is different and more like a public school then that's bull**** b/c its all the same. you just may not no it yet. except yea i agree with the same sex school. girls in all girls schools are much different but all boys schools the guys are up to some crazy stuff.... you might not realize it but dont be so niave and say we are the only ones.

[kiyara]

ok; i hear you. i was kind of judging/not speaking from an informed perspective. I dont know much about the school, and am not really involved in any serious drug use/abuse or actual sex occurences. So maybe I don't know. ok. And yeah I mean the all girls schools. the all guys schools are probably like drug and hormones running rampant.

[whuknu]

I go to that school to, and I can tell u that that reputation is not lived up to- and ppl are working to clean it up icegal. I can tell u that I don’t do drugs or drink. I have some friends who do, but I am not a party person, and there are many ppl who aren’t!



Kiyara- I do not think that this school- my school- is a diverse public school. It is a yeshiva high school. I PROMISE you that there are similar things going on at ur school. It is not a perfect world in yeshiva. My friend was teasing me about this and I got so angry and I told him that the same things were going on at his school and he had not right to be so mean. It is a yeshiva- if my parents wanted me to go to public school, that’s wehre I would be- it cost a lot less. I learn torah, gemerah, Hebrew, and Jewish values. Not everyone chooses to go in this path though.

[luckst4rs]

just trying to get a point across that sex and drugs have and always will be in yeshiva high schools. maybe at all-girls-schools or wherever not as much but my school isn't the only one with parties like these....

[PrUnE]

it's my school and they are responding to the media and its ridiculous. my friends got unlucky. but i know we will continue to go to parties. we will continue to drink and smoke.
this has nothing to do with the school. i've been to the same parties with more kids at the houses of public school kids and people who don't go to my school. this happens all the time and if people think badly of the school more than any other school then that's stupid bc any other school will have the same kind of kids.....hey its my school to dammit.

[PrUnE]

just trying to get a point across that sex and drugs have and always will be in yeshiva high schools. maybe at all-girls-schools or wherever not as much but my school isn't the only one with parties like these....its bad in all schools but in our school its really bad, i mean i know cause well almost my whole grade does it, i personally just do hookah, and drink, maybe i would do drugs, ive been offered by my freinds dozens of times, but really im just afraid that ill get drug tested cause everyone already thinks im on drugs and if i try and get drug tested, thats it im busted. Our school is pretty bad, last year like no one in my grade did drugs then all of the suddenly at the end of the year half my grade does it, ppl u wouldnt even expect, im sure u know which kids in my grade im talkin about. Every grade in our school this year does drugs like 30 percent of the freshys, 50 percent of my grade, 40 percent of the junior grade, and like 60 percent of the senior grade, so yea for the little amount of kids in our school, drugs is pretty bad.

[ColdTruth]

The party at this particular house apparently had been going on since early in the evening, with kids from our State university and several high schools in the area. But the local yeshiva kids were at school for a well-publicized, heavily attended basketball doubleheader. The varsity game tipped off shortly before 10 pm. It was a close, emotionally draining game, with the home team pulling out the victory with 6 seconds to go. The game ended around 11:30. Everybody was exhilarated and exhausted, but because it was a Saturday night -- a rarity for yeshiva league games, which are usually on weeknights -- everybody wanted to go out to celebrate. A bunch of the players and spectators knew about this party, and went, starting to arrive shortly before midnight. That's probably what caused all the noise in the neighborhood, and the call to the police. The police showed up around 12:15. So if you hear that these yeshiva kids were at this party all night, it's simply not true.

[sweetgirl12237]

Some of the kids were there all nite. the varsity team did win but its not like its unlikly for there to be games on weekends because my school has more games on the weekends then on weekdays

[why all this]

i was there at the party, i was arrested and i know exactly wat went on there. every student from the school thats being named the big comtributer to this whole mess showed up either in the middle of after all the drugs were smoked. when it comes to the alchol, there were 5 beer cans in the whole house not even half a bottle of hard alchol left in the house by the time we showed up. the party was not loud and out of control, 1 kid was screaming on his cell phone at some one and there was steam from a hot tub and the nieghbors freaked out and called the cops. we had a meeting the next day with the school and they said straight out to us not in these exact words but this is wat they said, we know the media is turning this into somthing its not but we have to save our own reputation. so in truth this has nothing to do with wat really went on specificly at the party but the reason for why we're getting punished in this fasion is because other people felt like gossiping and going nuts over this. the fact that the schools name is so big to begin with just made the media have a party over this. there ignoring the 4 or 5 other schools that had students there. yes the majority came frome one school but this wasnt a school event, and if u have a problem with how the medias dealing with it then u come out and u release a statement saying we were not the only school there and we will be dealing with this in a mature and responsible fasion. rather than just go and suspend the kids for being at a coed party which is redicules because wen colleges look at it there just ganna laugh. and on top of that suspending the kids doesnt solve the problem it has nothing to do with drugs or anything, an educated response would have been councling or community service and by jumping to a suspension just makes the school look as even a bigger joke. im sorry but from some one that was at the party.....the media is lieing, the school is handling it in the wrong way 100%, and this is hopefully a wake up call for other schools and this one as well that u really dont know wats going on and if u do u have been turnning away and not dealing with ur problem the right way. because if u were this wouldnt of happend so shame on u schools for waisting time when it comes to this problem.

[luckst4rs]

prune- the juniors barely smoke. maybe 20 percent smoke weed. and that's starting this year. last year it was only like 5 kids. now its maybe 10. so don't assign percentages it's wrong. so yea. i know i'm among them.....

coldtruth- yea i was at the game and left early. if i stayed i would have gone to the party.... most people went after the game right before the cops were called....

[Comfortably Dumb]

You Yeshiva kids get caught too easily.

[why all this]

us yeshiva kids, im sorry but just because one out of 100 times that i go to a part i get caught and it turns out to be by the police, doesnt give u a right to label me personally and/ or any one els that goes to a yeshiva. i can only speak for my friends but im sure there are many others the same, we do know wat were doing yes the things that some of us do arent legal or morally correct but we are teenagers we are going to do the things people do regardless of in a yeshiva or not. and if your going to label and say that yeshiva kids get caught way to easily im sory but thats completely wrong. if your going to judge it based on this then you shouldnt be speaking.

[Comfortably Dumb]

How about no?

[PrUnE]

comftarbly dumb- yea dude, seriously many many parties get busted and this is the first "yeshiva" party to be busted so u have absoulty no clue what ur talkin about,.

luckst4r- ur right im sry, i thought the junior grade did alot more, but this year they've been pretty clean, maybe i think that cause ive done it with the juniors do it with our grade?

[israeliwannabe]

i think its a really bad thing. drugs and alcohol or bad to begin with. now the school has a bad reputation. there are always gonna be people who drink and do drugs no matter what school you go to but they dont make a huge party with tons of it around. not only have they made a bad reputation for the school but for the jewish community in general. its a major chilul hashem.

[luckst4rs]

haha prune- then you might have smoked with me hahaha

[PrUnE]

ahaha that would be really funny if i did.

[Comfortably Dumb]

I don't care all too much. I hope the kid goes to jail.

[luckst4rs]

ya never know..... but you said you don't smoke weed only hookah and drink so then prolly not.....

[why all this]

the party wasnt a huge party if you think having 42 kids at a party is big then you have no idea wat your talking about. there are party's that even my self have held that have had more than 150 people somtimes way more than that. and second thing, the stuff the police found was not all around. the cops had to walk around to the side of the house in order to see the weed that was at the party and the alchol were in 2 rooms. the reason why the police were able to get into the house from the start was because there was 1 bottle of alchol in the main entrance way after that the police had to go through the house to find things. and for any one that feels this kid that had the party should be locked up im sry but ur wrong and a horrible person for thinking that. im sry but there are better ways to deal with wat happend and to teach this person not to do it again. this isnt juvinal hall were talking about this is real prison that he would be going to. with real criminals and seruise stuff. to say that this kid deserves to go there because he did somthing that most kids do at this age, im sorry thats wrong and i hope this would happen to one of ur friends so you would realize going to jail is more seruise and way to seruise to send some one this age to.

[crayon]

why all this- what u said about the police haveing to go and look for the weed is completely not true. my cousin who is a polin who happened to be the one who got the call to go there told us that as soon as they walked in to the front hallway they saw everything just lying on the ground and they didnt have to go searching to find the kids who where smoking the weed for they were all over the house and quite easy to pick out. just thought that i let you in on that little peace of information

[Comfortably Dumb]

Oh, please. He was doing something ILLEAGAL. I couldn't care less if he's your friend or not. If one of my friends did that, I wouldn't continue being friends with him. I'm sorry for all that happened, but the guy is stupid. Period.

[luckst4rs]

um don't talk **** about people you don't know. i'm friends with him and he is not stupid. he made a mistake that's all. he's thrown parties like this before, just this time he got extremely unlucky. and i think that's ridiculous. maybe you wouldn't be friends with people who drink and smoke but its certainly stupid to say you wouldn't be friends wit someone who got caught having a party. i think that's the time when they need your help and you should be at their side instead of not continuing being friends with him.

[PrUnE]

com. dumb- so he should go to jail? lmao if anything sued for money, & commuinty service.

luckst4r-Probably, but i did do hookah with them outside sometimes, maybe u were there.

[luckst4rs]

haha i wasnt but i know who was.... a certain friend of mine neglected to pull me out of class during the hookah episodes... its like all the sophmores just became cool over the summer and started doing stuff. my grade still isn't as hardcore as you guys but when u were freshman u werent that bad.....
prune- were u in the shcool last year?

[whuknu]

CB- i have friends who do things i dont necessarily agree with, and they know i dont, but i dont ditch them jsut cuz of that- in fact if they are doing something hazardous (like drug/alcohol abuse, not just using) then i know they need me.

[Comfortably Dumb]

um don't talk **** about people you don't know.

I know who he is. Hell, you don't even know me.

[PrUnE]

yes i do, no im not one of the kids gettin kicked out, and yes i did get cool over the summer lol.

[whuknu]

and what exactly do u define as cool?

[PrUnE]

I know who he is. Hell, you don't even know me.well ur not really a good freind then if u wont be freinds with ppl when they did something wrong, when they need u the most u turn ur back on them, jeez im thankful i dont know you.

[luckst4rs]

yea and you obviously don't know what youre talking about so yea i assumed your just another person who thinks everyone who does drugs is evil and should go to jail......

prune- how did you guys just get started this summer? i mean i was one of the first and only people in my grade to smoke. i started smoking weed in the beginning of freshman year with a friend outside of school and ive been drinking since i was in middle school so yea. it's just funny how overnight we have potheads from your grade.....

[PrUnE]

well i dont know about everybody else, but me in i started in camp.

[PrUnE]

well techinally it started in camp cause thats hwne i started to hang around kids who do it, (except two kids last year in school) but after with my sis cause she has a hookah and lets me use it when i want.

[luckst4rs]

yea some kids in my grade started this summer from those trips and stuff.

[luckst4rs]

yea some kids in my grade started this summer from those trips and stuff. i think most kids from our school start with people who dont go there and then do it with kids in school.....

[PrUnE]

luckst4rs did u go to our school last year or no?

[PrUnE]

u dont have to answer that if u think its to personal.

[luckst4rs]

of course. and the year before as well.

[luckst4rs]

i'd tell u who i was i just don't need the whole lockers to know. ya know it ruins the privacy thing. plus its more fiun anonymous......

[PrUnE]

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk thats fine :-#

[luckst4rs]

and comfortably dumb.....
Hell, i just might.

[luckst4rs]

arent u supposed to be able to PM here?

[PrUnE]

nope, u cant

[LadyOfCarlisle]

Luckst4rs: See http://www.thelockers.net/forum/showthread.php?t=399 if you are interested

[luckst4rs]

blah blah blah bull****.....

anyways smoking and drinking is totally fun as long as your careful and this whole thing will blow over soon. i hope my friends get off easy because they didn't do anything so wrong. many of them didn't even smoke or anything they just went to hang out....
we are just teenagers. we do ****. we **** up. then we turn into adults. it's the cycle of life....

[PrUnE]

I know and our princpals speech that he said to the whole school made no sense "if u did drugs as a kid u cant be a good parent" what does doin drugs when ur 14-17 have to do with u bein a parent at 24, 25 and so on.

[luckst4rs]

i know. i mean i think its not necessarily true that you NEED to go through crap as a kids to be a good parent but i think learning from your mistakes and going through difficult situations helps you to understand how to act with your kids. lets say when your older and you have a 16 year old kid and they are doing whatever that you dont approve of like smoking weed and you never even did it as a kid- how are you gonna react? i think it'll be harder than if you had done it yourself. being a little rebellious will help you iget into that mindset.... i think there are limits like dont be totally reckless for experience but i've gone through a lot drug/alcohol wise and sexually and emotionally. i understand a lot of crap i don't think i would if i just went through high school and college without every experimenting

[PrUnE]

took the words right out of my mouth.

[Comfortably Dumb]

well ur not really a good freind then if u wont be freinds with ppl when they did something wrong, when they need u the most u turn ur back on them, jeez im thankful i dont know you.

I was never his friend. Not my kind of people.

[PrUnE]

Well i was also talkin about before, when u were like if my freinds did drugs i wouldnt be there freind anymore.

[Comfortably Dumb]

I wouldn't. I'd try to get them help at first, but that's pretty futile if you ask me.

[PrUnE]

Oh, please. He was doing something ILLEAGAL. I couldn't care less if he's your friend or not. If one of my friends did that, I wouldn't continue being friends with him. I'm sorry for all that happened, but the guy is stupid. Period.mmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ii think i jjust proved u wrong.

[luckst4rs]

dumb- let kids be kids. get over your self-rightousness and let go a little bit. its more positive than bashing other people for the way they are...

[Comfortably Dumb]

No. I said that I'd try to help hmi, but people don't usually want help, so I'd give up.

[Comfortably Dumb]

Sure. I'll let you be kids. I'll let you suffer the consequences too.

[PrUnE]

If one of my friends did that, I wouldn't continue being friends with him. Period.Do I have to quote u any more times?

[PrUnE]

Sure. I'll let you be kids. I'll let you suffer the consequences too.i think ur sheltered and ur not a good freind at all.

[luckst4rs]

ok fine. what the hell makes you so self-righteous anyways? are you even in high school cuz you seriously act like a "i am older and wiser and ur all dumb" kinda person

[PrUnE]

well he has been sayin that he is the only one on this site that makes sense, when i just proved him wrong like twice

[Comfortably Dumb]

I'm self-righteous because it does me good in life. I get good grades with my self-righteousness. Everyone should have a big ego. There would be alot less depressed people.

Oh, and I'm a Junior.

[Comfortably Dumb]

well he has been sayin that he is the only one on this site that makes sense, when i just proved him wrong like twice

You keep on misunderstanding me. I WOULD PROBABLY HELP THEM AT FIRST, BUT IT WOULD BE FUTILE! FUTILE! F-U-T-I-L-E! Understand?

[luckst4rs]

yea well so am i. and yes i get good grades too. i got a freakin 4.0 last semester while doing my own thing anyway. and there is a difference between self esteem and a big ego. i haev high self esteem. i just odnt think im better than everyone and my opinions are always right

[PrUnE]

ok u get good grades, that has notin to do with bein self-rightous buddy.

[PrUnE]

lmfao, u didnt say that in ur post did u, stop tryin to cover urself by sayin "i misunderstood u" cause i didnt.

[PrUnE]

Oh, please. He was doing something ILLEAGAL. I couldn't care less if he's your friend or not. If one of my friends did that, I wouldn't continue being friends with him. I'm sorry for all that happened, but the guy is stupid. Period.hmm it doesnt say that u would try and help him in here does it? doesnt say that it would be futile.

[luckst4rs]

WHO CARES?
dumb doesnt give a **** about people who arent like him so it doesnt really matter does it? "i am so good i get good grades and i love myself and no one else" go him. meanwhile i think people can be helped. its not futile. just not everyone needs the helping. people are overdiagnosed these days. not everyone who smokes weed every once in awhile needs help.

[Comfortably Dumb]

PrUnE-I'm not covering myself up. That's what I truly meant. Even though it doesn't say it clearly in that post. I've had my share of friends on drugs. I tried helping them, but they got back at it again. I gave up. Also, being self-righteuos works for me.

[PrUnE]

if u "truly" meant it then u should have said it and not assume everyone knows what ur thinkin.

[Comfortably Dumb]

Oh, so sorry, PrUnE.

[other]

Hea,

I have just read this thread and here are my opinions on the issue as a kid in the school:

This isn’t the only issue which has gotten our school its bad name; there have been many issues; Coming almost once a year now. There are a couple of issues which our school could have avoided.
One thing our school could have avoided is having the reputation of letting certain kids do whatever they want and get away with it. Our school is deeply imbedded in politics; There are two or three families, with a kid in almost every grade in the school, who give a lot of $$$, and then many other families who are, for one reason or another, “notable” (either because of money or because of the politics of general NJ) and have many kids in school. Our school will do almost anything to keep these families happy, let their kids get in and stay in the school, no matter how unintelligent or bad they are, and let those kids get away with anything, up to [and I’m beginning to think including] murder. A kid who is part of one of these families can harass girls and get kicked out of other schools, but still get in and stay in our school, while kids who are not in those families and do just a little bit of drugs (which seems to be no big deal in our school), a few small pranks, and isn’t that smart will get kicked out. If our school just used the same standards for everyone in our school (not to say that everyone should be allowed to get away with everything, rather no one should getaway with anything) then we would not have the reputation of letting certain kids get away with whatever they want (because they wouldn’t).
Furthermore had our school not had these strong political ties then we wouldn’t look so bad when those politicians got into trouble.
Along with giving an extreme amount of slack to kids coming from important families our school also gives a lot of slack to the rest of the kids in our school. Our school has the reputation of being a school for kids who can not get into any other school, a reputation which is to an extent true. If our school didn’t let these kids in then we wouldn’t have so many kids in our school which would constantly get in trouble and make us look bad. If we let in only talented kids then our school would have kids which would do good things rather than bad, who would in turn make us look better, which would in turn make us attract better kids and put us in an infinite upward loop. Instead we are in an infinite downward loop; the kids in our school are bad so we have a bad reputation, so we get worse kids the following year…. Maybe this is because our school is relatively new and in the beginning we accepted kids who were only half-decent because good kids didn’t think our school was so good and thus didn’t know if they would get a good education in the school and thus didn’t apply. Our school needs to suck it up for a few years and only accept virtuous kids so that it can get itself out of that downward loop and into that upward loop.
Those were the problems with our school which brought us to what we have today, now for last weekend’s problem: I think our school should focus less on exactly what happened last Saturday night, and more on why it happened.
This party did not take place in school and thus isn’t really the school’s problem. If they wanted to happen to demand that the whole school takes a p*ss test that would be one thing, but suspending every kid who was at the party (which I was told happened) is another.
The idea of suspending every kid is ridiculous, what happened to the idea of being innocent until you have been proven guilty? If we’re going to play police, lets at least act like the police. Additionally what is the point of suspending the kids in the first place? Congratulations, you did something wrong! And what do we have for him Johnny? A THREE DAY EXTENSION TO HIS THANKSGIVING VACATION.
Instead of making these rash and ridiculous decisions we should be making out well thought out and smart ones. I have a feeling a few administrators in our school are doing the first thing they think of rather than thinking this all through. They are scared they are going to be accused of having the school fall apart under their watch. I thought the administrators were here to do what is best for the students, not do what will save their own but?
Now for my feelings on last weekend’s problem with respect to people other than the faculty of the school. My biggest problem is the laxness with which people deal with drugs in general. Everyone is seems to have the attitude of “ok so I have done drugs one or two times, but its nothing” or “Whatever, I know my child has tried drugs once or twice, but its ok”. Even if trying drugs once or twice isn’t harmful to you has it occurred to anyone that it is still illegal? Or is that meaningless now a days?
Along with that, what happens if you try drugs once or twice and you really like it? You’re screwed. Even if you not addicted you’ll want to do it again and again…. You never miss what you never had. That is why I don’t even bother trying hookah or cigarettes, let alone pot.
So these are my feelings. I might have been just going on and on or whatnot, but wtvr that’s what this site is for.

-Have a good weekend

[Comfortably Dumb]

well i just find it funny how u say no one on this site makes any sense but u, yet u didnt make any sense ur self, way to be a hypocrite.

You can even look at the thread, dude. Where does it say that, "I'm the only one that makes sense and no one else doesn't"?

[whuknu]

guys- we arent here to attack eachother and get angry at eachother ( iknow that its difficult for me too but still). thats kind of why this has to be anonymous- we are supposed to be here for eachother. maybe maybe cb (correct me if im wrong, please) just owuldnt feel that he would be able to withstand the peer pressure and thats why he wouldnt hang out with these ppl. its very difficult for some ppl to withstand peer pressure. or maybe those arent the ppl he wants to hang out with.

[whuknu]

i think prune is reffering to a diferent thread...

[shufleye]

guys - i gotta agree with whuknu - this personal debate between luckst4rs, PrUnE, and Comf has got to stop -- its gone well beyond the point of this thread, and also far beyond the values of this site. u all r very active members of The Lockers, and ur all here bc u care about ur friends and each other.

this is obviously a heated issue, and emotions run intense on things like this -- especially for those who know people who r getting hurt by whats going down.

TheLockers.net is a place to attack issues - not each other. u r each clearly coming from very different points of view on the whole drug/alcohol/partying scene. give eachother a chance to be heard -- there r probably valuable things to hear on all sides.

~shufleye - yer friendly neighborhood admin

[darkfairyeyes]

Everyone who was at that party shouldbe on probabtion. Drugs are not cool. Drugs will kill y ou. They f***ed up my brothers life and I dont want to see it happen to anyone else. Listen 21 of those kids busted were from the saem school. The news reports fail to mention though that there were two other jewish high schools and two public high schools there. I wasnt there but like the rest of the kids who knew about the party I was thinking about it. Anyone drinking or using drugs should be suspended for two weeks to a month and anyone dealing should be expelled. i know I sound harsh but this stuff needs to be dealt with and NOW.

[why all this]

crayon,

thats the biggest load of crap ive ever heard in my life. i was at the dam party many of my friends were at the party and there were no drugs in the front hall way were not stupid to smoke indoors were it can permanintly stain his furniture with the odor. and you really think that the media is blew everything out of its context, the freakin police blew it up also, " a wild and out of control party" was wat the police and the media called it and i know the police did because they told us thats wat they felt it was wen they walked in the door. which was complete bull. you ask any other person there if there were drugs inside the house and out in the open and they will answer you no, why, because the kids that were there were not stupid about doing drugs and the only thing that got the police through the door was a bottole of smirinoff on a table and the smell, not visual proove of weed. when they came in the door they specificly came to were i was with some friends and asked were are the drugs you guys are smoking, why because they obviusly hadnt found them until they came outside smart one. if your going to try and tell me that im wrong about somthing that i was part of and know 100% and your going to go by wat the full of crap cocky *** missapropriate police officers and detectives say then your just being ignorant of the facts buddy.

[why all this]

im not here to argue with people im here to state the facts from a student there rather than from a police officer or a camera man. the truth is everything was made into a huge deal that it shouldnt have been and if the schools worried about there ego then come out and make a statement, and say we understand the severe circumstances that have happend and we will deal with each person indivudally on there own case. not go right ahead and punish kids based on media coverage. i just want the kids that were there my self included to have a say in wat really went on and until i find another way this is were its goin.

[Elvira]

i'm kinda worried to post on this cause i dont wanna spread this to my friends and my school but i just want to say to any parents reading this and also to the school this happened that this is not only in your area or your kids.

i go to school in ny and i can tell u this is everyehwere ... the best schools andthe best kids .. u have no idea. the numbers taht some1 said here about your school is totall the same everywhere in jeswish schools and i mean yeshivas.

this party does not surprise any teens but we are all alwyas surprised at the way u handle things. do u care about us or your image? will your responses help us and our firends or just make u look "tough" and "serious"?

kids all over the tristate are watching this ... we dont wanna incriminate our friends so we dont wanna say too muhc about our other schools... but its all the same everywhere dont kid yourself

[luckst4rs]

why all this-

its true it was blown out of porportion. nuff said

darkfairyeyes- that's a load of crap. you used to "smoke" a cigarette every once in awhile. you used to claim you did stuff just read your posts. it's hypocritical just because you 'saw the way' or whatever your saying these kids should get suspended and expelled. you want to help them so they dont **** up there lives? dont suspended them. kicking them out of school will screw their lives up more than anything else.

and shu's right let's stop with the madness. i didn't mean to be involved in a small fight on the boards but it just pisses me off when people make themselves look stupid. plus we are a bunch of angered teens late at night- what else can you expect?

[whuknu]

i still dont know if i would suspend them- i mean look none of us r in the position to do so- but what about those of us that dont party like this? If we can party like this and get away with it then maybe we should party. but we dont. so it might screw up their lives- but its not COMPLETELY the schools fault. they had a choice whether or not to be at the party. i myself did not- i wasnt invited- but even if i was, i wouldnt go- so why should my classmates get away with doing things they shouldnt really be doing (whether it should be permitted or not is not the issue here- the point is its not allowed and they did it neways) and i should get treated the same way- colleges should look at me who didnt get suspended for this the same way they look at someone who did? no. i dont think that should be. there should be consequences for ur actions. sorry that it hurts- but it hurts me to that ppl coment to me about kids in my class getting arrested- it hurts that colleges shoud look at us the same way. im sry...

[luckst4rs]

but also the thing is why should the school have anything to do with what we do on weekends just because we are a private school? livingston high has nothing to do with what the kids do unless they are in a sports team or other activity that requires a no drugs contract. i understand things like this really hurt the school's reputation but it already has the rep of a reject school and more. the kids are gonna get screwed by the legal system don't suspend without proof. yea they are gonna get charged with being there and in posession of MJ but that doesn't mean they smoked it. the school can test the kids if they want but to automatically suspend. it's embaressing and unjust. espeically since not everyone who was there got suspended. someone narced on who they knew was there and got them in trouble. they did not get police records.

[whuknu]

ok so i know that might have sounded harsh- my mom was calling me and i didnt have tiem to finish so now im going to...

so i mean i feel that way but i also feel a little not like that just cuz ive been going to school with these ppl and mostly they are nice and everything. i honestly dont even know how to feel. i mean im embarrased but im not so much-bc teh truth is all the yeshivas have kids who party and stuff. they jsut havent gotten caught yet. but its embarrasing when ppl ask me about it-other yeshiva kids. so guys please dont get mad at me about what i sed... we dont need more fighting

[whuknu]

i dont know if i really agree with this but i can tell u exactly why: Private Yeshiva high school. maybe these students dont necesaserily fit the requirements- considering we are taught not to do these things. we are supposed to keep kosher shabbat whtvr- if u dont is yeshiva really for u? and if ur being forced to be there and want to be in public school then the school is doing u afavor technically. what the kids do on the weekend is there busness bc for one thing- on the lighter side, we are jewish and yenta like so everything is everyones bussiness- but on the other hand, its their business bc they care about the school-they dont want other students to fall in with these crowds. they have a whole other group of students to care for. and u know what i go there and i dont look at it as a reject school. i work hard to get good grades (no im not in the lowest track not that it makes a diference), i work hard to tell my out of school friends that its not a bad school. a reject school? its ojnly owhat u make it to be!

[why all this]

ill just add on to all this, i do feel we the kids there should be punished but i feel that we should be punishd in away that would also help solve and prevent the problem from reaccuring. suspending us does not do that one bit. as soon as we were told our punishment at school everyone that was there starting laughing and saying this is the biggest joke ever. if the school really wanted to do somthing smart they would have called a meeting with the whole school and broken up into groups and had people talk and maybe even have the school docs talk to certain kids they feel might have been involved. but by suspending them right away doesnt help or prevent the problem from reaccuring. i also think that this really shows a lack in the schools education. if they honestly cared i think that this wouldnt of happend. because if they cared they would have put more into there drug education system and would have worked on educating us and steering us away from this activity a long time ago. now that this comes up i think the school is partially to blame and now there panicing because they feel that the whole world now sees were they screwed up. and now there just scared for there own wel beings. on the livingston high point. its true, the main yeshiva involved is saying that its in their handbook to not be at unsupervised parties, give me a break. colleges will laugh wen they look at our permanent records and see suspended for going to a coed unsupervised party. whuknu i agree that we should not be viewed the same as u guys ( the people that didnt go to the party) and thats y i feel we should be sent to community service and colleges should be informed its not just for u to be on the same level as us after wat we did. but......if u do that then more than half of this yeshiva and im sure a large percentage of other yeshivas would then have to do the same to there schools for everyone that goes to these parties. to say that because we got caught we should be punished for were we go to college, i then feel that everyone that goes to these parties should be punished caught or not caught, and that u cant realisticly do.

[PrUnE]

I dont think the school should be allowed to do anythin, even though they already suspended the kids for three days, that should be enough, caue it wasnt durin school hours, or on school property, infact the kid who made the party gradutied from the school already so...............anyways........Let the court handle it, personally i think they only thing that should happen to them is commiunty service, and maybe a fine.

[other]

luckst4rs- posetion is illegal also.

[kiyara]

honestly, from an outsiders(not from the school) point of view, it is one of the stupidest things on the schools part to suspend the kids. And I dont think having a DARE program would cut it either. Maybe they should force them to go help out in a place where ppl recovering from substance/drug abuse are...and talk to someone they trust. theres gotta be a more logical reaction than plain suspension.

[PrUnE]

u mean like sending them to j.a.c.k.s?

[luckst4rs]

yea i know it's illegal but some people don't do stuff and don't want to not hang out with people who do. so they go to those parties anyways. so yea they get screwed over with the legal system. that's enough. the school shouldn't have to barge in on it. yes it might be a "problem" (only when people get caught there is a problem) but it shouldn't be focused on the indivuduals there. if they want to do something do it to everyone in every school because its everywhere. let the court handle this specific case.

btw- everyones laughing because so many people HAVE been caught by the cops before and nothing happened. it's only big now because the police blew it out of porportion when they heard the school name. if it wasnt our school then no one would give a damn.

[kiyara]

whats j.a.c.k.s?

[PrUnE]

I think this is the longest thread on this site, anyways j.a.c.k.s is a rehab for all of u that didnt know that.

[whuknu]

why all this- they had a drug awareness prgram the thurs b4!!!! they are trying! maybe u dont see it s omaybe u should join the comittee and help them figure it out! that is if ur not already on it. i was talking to afriend of mine from another local yeshiva high school and he sed that if it was his school the kids would be probably expelled right away! u really think if the school deals with it the way u think it should bdealt with u wont party liek this on the weekends? be honest. i dont care if u do. maybe ur right- it should be like expulsion but i justh ave very mixed feelings...
prune it was two days. and i aready stated why i think the school should do something about it.
the school shoudl do something, bc its not fcair to us- but maybe why all this is right- do a punishment that helps....
luckst4rs- those who dont do thats stuff and jkust sit back and watch their friendsa do it- thats not cool either...

[why all this]

whuknu, the drug awareness meeting that was the thur. before was held by kids. not adults and not educators in that field. if the school cared they wouldnt leave it all up to the kids the adults would take control. no im not on that commitee because i know everyone on that commitee are only there to write it on there college transcripts they couldnt really careless bout the rest of the school. me personally, after this past weekend no i dont plan on going to any party's until atleast college. if the school delt with it the way i feel they should then no i dont think i would. because the thing that the school should of been doing ever since we all came into highschool was have a program that scares the crap out of kids when it comes to drugs and drinking. if you dont scare them and drill it in there heads then teenagers wont care and will laugh about it until they get caught themselves. and i also have some friends from other schools some that were even at the party and yes there schools have said if they fail a drug test they will be thrown out, no questions asked. but if they do pass the drug test then thats the end of it. and thats another yeshiva, very well known yeshiva as a matter of fact. the bottom line is the school could have handled things from day one in a much better way and now there trying to cover up for there lack in education when it comes to drugs and alcohol.

[luckst4rs]

um the drug awareness commitee is BS
i'm on it...
most of the kids do drugs. at meetings we sit and discuss drug stories
and at the program we tried to hold we tried discussing stuff with the kids but the were difficult. cracking jokes and not letting us run a successful program to urge kids to be careful. so yea people don't care they aren't willing to hear about it.
and sometimes people don't want to lose their friends just bc they do stuff. i know people who have stopped being friends bc one felt that the otehr was chosing drugs over her bc she wouldnt stop doing it for her and the other was pissed off her friend was acting like her mother or whatever. so it causes problems and sometimes people don't want to lose their friends just bc they like to smoke up every once in awhile. so they just want to find a balance between not doing stuff and still being able to hanging out with their friends- which is why they go to these parties and just stay away from what they don't want to do.

no one should be expelled. like these kids lives wont be messed up if you kick em out of yeshiva and force them to go to public school or whatever? many kids i know who have been kicked out of schools for whatever reason just go downhill more- whether to special rehab schools or public or whatever they just get more screwed up than staying in yeshiva and smoking every once in awhile.....

[whuknu]

I know- i am on it- it wasnt really like that a few yrs a go, but it always had the kids who did drugs we jsut didnt sit around talking baout our experiences. i dont do drugs though. if ppl dont want to hear about it then how can anyone do anything about it? i have a friend who actually did choose weed over me. i still want to be able to be friends with her- i dont lecture her or nething. she just doesnt want to talk to me bc she thinks i will, but i dont. so thats not the case with everyone. well they should have something other than a two day suspension.... maybe not expulsion

[whuknu]

and btw why all this- i am not on the committee to write it for college. that is not why i do things. i care about my classmates. i dont WANT to see them expelled. I am jsut mad- not AT the kids but bc its embarrasing for me when my friends out of school ask me about it. they make fun of it. and i work so hard to stand up for everyone, and then things like this happen. so why dont u suggest this to the faculty member that runs the committee? I am sure hed be mroe than happy to listen to u. he is very open to other ideas.

[other]

kids do screw up, but when you screw badly enfough... Plus this isn't the first tme for most of these kids, or even the first time being caught for most of these kids.

Also like i said: doing drugs "every once in a while" is not ok. Can somebody please tell me why everyone says it is ok if its just once in a while?

[booklet0519]

i went to the elemetary school, adn in 8th grade i was thinking about continuing at the high school...i heard rumors of drugs= the fatc it wasn't a good fit for me is why i am somewhere else( and loving it!)

anyway... in 8th grade you get a drug program, adn i would loev to thinmk that it helps people... i know i would never do them becasue i don't want to mess up my life. i want to be my own person.. i never understood the need for drugs...relaxation/relief from stress??? try music or acting or sports!!!!!!!!1

the things that really bother me are:
the fact the people are dismissing the fact that drugs are illegal!!!!
that my brother in 4th grade didn't even know about it! ( some of you said you started drinking in 6th grade... my brother loves sports so i don't think he would, but especially know, all of the students from 3rd grade and up should ve getting courses on how adn why to say no to drugs...)

there is no reason to encourage drugs!!

[israeliwannabe]

its not ok if u do it "once in a while". the people who say that are the people who do it and they are just making an excuse to justify their actions.

[why all this]

no ones saying its ok to do drugs once and awhile. its just if ur going to punish kids for doing drugs then do it in away thats ganna stop kids from doing it again not just put them further into a depression or frustrated state thats not ganna help them. and for most of these kids it is the first time they've been caught to this magnitude. most of these kids have never seen there friends handcuffed and padded down against the wall and being screamed at by cops. yeah they've been to party's that have gotten broken up by the cops but never seen friends get arrested. theres a huge diff. between the two and thats why if ur going to punish these kids do it in a fasion that will prevent future misshaps suspending and expelling wont do athing wen it comes to solving the problem.

[other]

we'll aside from your drug problem and dealing with that, you've broken the law. These kids should have seen how the police dealt with the other kids. They have to face that’s how the real world is, you can't go through life thinking that you're too good to be treated like that and people are going to have pity on you. You broke the law and this is what you get. No matter what you think, no matter how other people in our society think and act WE ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW.

MANY OF THESE KIDS WERE SENIORS AND JUNIORS, WHICH MEANS NEXT YEAR THEY ARE GETTING OUT OF OUR LITTLE JEWISH BUBBLE AND BEGGING TO ENTER THE REAL WORLD, ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE

Sometimes kids have to screw up big time and face the big time consequences to learn there lesson. If these kids were 8th graders not 12th graders I might feel differently, but they aren’t

[whuknu]

i agree booklet, i've never felt the need to drink or do drugs. other- some of these kids were freshmen- what do u propose happens to them? thats really close to grade 8.

[why all this]

the difference between high school party's and college parties are, when your in college and if some ones doin drugs in your dorm your not going to get in trouble for bieng in your dorm room. the kids that didnt do drugs or drink at the party are getting screwed over because some moron who brought drugs to the party wont stand up and say i did it. so now everoyne is getting charged with it. in college you dont get introuble for being in the same building or even in the same imidiate vicinity. yes college is the real world and these kids that were there do and did know that wat they were doing was wrong but as every teenager thinks....we are invinsible and they didnt feel they would get caught this time around. the fact that they did get caught now, hopefully my friends and my self will be an example for kids before they personally get caught to understand wat really happens first hand rather than just parents saying dont do it its bad for you. if your going to say that you dont do drugs or drink and we should turn to playing sports and other activities like that. the guys that were there make up half of the school varsity teams. almsot the whole schools athletic talent was at that party. playing sports is not an imediate outlet for the urge to do drugs and drink. i feel they are two completely different things that cant cancel each other out. OTHER- if you think these kids are stuck in a jewish bubble and dont know the real world, most of those kids were introduced or first came in contact with drugs and underage drinking while being in the real world, somthing called college. most of us have odler siblings that are in college or were in the past few years and thats were we were introduced to it. we know wat goes on outside of yeshiva high school life. we were just acting like every other teenager feels.....invinsible...and it just turns out it was with drugs and drinking.

[luckst4rs]

why all this is right
drugs and drinking and sex (altohugh not prominent in this case) are major parts of the real world. when you go to college and leave this tiny jewish bubble you will see how common all this stuff is and how nonchalant people are about it. that's why some kids feel as though smoking and drinking aren't a big deal- they have seen how outside of the yehsiva world people act about it and they relate to it as many kids in yeshivas think it's the worst thing in the world- they might not be used to how common it is. of course i'm not saying it being common makes it the right thing to do. just it makes it a bigger deal if you arent used to it.

[other]

WAT-
1. These kids have only been charged, there was a reason to believe that these kids were guilty. If they can prove they aren't then nothing will happen to them (the fact that the school suspended them is another story) you example in the dorm is not a good one. If you were in your dorm in the same room as the party which had drugs you would probably be charged. The kid who was in the house of the party(the host's little brother), but was sick and wasn't part of it was not taken in or anything.

2.What I mean by they live in a bubble is that they feel they are so rich and upadey and they are beyond the law, not they don't know life outside of the Jewish community.

[booklet0519]

i don't care what the real world thinks.. addiction is a problem and our tolerance to it just makes the problem worse.

i think the 9/10 graders and prob also the 11/12 should learn what drugs do to your body, adn that the cool they bring is a kind of disgust adn temperary...

i also agree thatb if the moron who brought them confesses, the situation gets a lot better.

i am assuming that being arrested doesn't look good on a college resume.......

drugs are illegal poeple, adn doing them kills cells.... you are more prone to illness adn live shorter lives...if you hate yor life so much see a therapist... or amke good and trustworthy friends.... doing drugs are SUCH A STUPID CHOICE!

[whuknu]

ok but why is it the thing to do? why is it "cool"? or is it? maybe it isnt? some ppl say it is, some say its not. personally i dont think it is or isnt.

[luckst4rs]

not everyone does it because its "cool" maybe they try it to see what the fuss is about and they LIKE it. there is a reason people do stuff and its not because everyone else does it. it makes you have a good time.

[why all this]

other- first off these kids are only being charged because of 1 person mistake, which was not standing up and saying i distributed the drugs. if that person did then none of the other 18 or minors would be charged with possession. they dont have to prove anything because its a b.s. charge when they go to court its not going to have a chance of being proven guilty because none of those kids distributed it that go to this school. thats were your wrong for the first part. 2nd, i have an older sibling who was in a dorm their first semester at college and kids on her floor smoked weed almost every night of the week and everyone in the dorm knew thats where it was and if they wanted thats where they went. police would walk around all the time for security reasons and they would never charge anyone else other than the students that lived in the room with possession. so if you're going to tell me im wrong, that the dorm example is false its not because ive seen it myself first hand. 3rd if you're going to say that me and my friends feel were above the law and too rich to follow anything, well you should watch ur words. not one person that was in that house feels they're better than the law not one person in that house feel they're so rich and brags and acts like they're tuff s***. so before you start labeling the people that were there, check your facts.

[other]

1.If you didn't think you were above the law then why did you break the law?
2.if there is someone distributing there has to be some that taking.
4.plenty of times cops know something is going on that is wrong, the fact that they don't do anything about it is a problem in and of itself (also i'm guessing that that was campus security not the police, the campus security doesn’t have to do anything if they don’t want to)

[why all this]

just because u do somthing thats against the law doesnt mean u think ur better than it. for instance i dont know if u drive yet but for those of u who do and my self, we still speed sometimes. its against the law but we do even our parents do sometimes but that doesnt mean they feel they're above the law. yes there were people taking the drugs from whoever distributed it but everyone thats 18 and over is being charged with possession and distribution not just the one person that did it. whether or not u took , thats a personal thing most of the people at the party didnt. and last if u dont know on most campuses whenever a student throws up the dorm security must report it to the police and they send an ambulance no matter wat the cause of throwing up is. when the ambulance comes at least one police car comes and the two times that i was at the campus and i saw first hand, the police officers came up and asked certain people questions and when walking into a dorm room they saw weed. they didnt go and question every person on that floor only the people in the room and they left it at that. im not here to argue these points im just stating things from a persons point of view that was at the house.

[luckst4rs]

haha does anyone notice how the last week there were posts on this board screaming every five seconds and now it's quieted down? see, everyone got over it.

[other]

I heard that you guys came to kushner to speak to the teachers this mourning, what went on?

[booklet0519]

luckst4rs- i did notice, but that doesn't mean drugs is any bit less of an issue

[luckst4rs]

i never said it stopped becoming an issue. i'm just saying people are more over it now.

and no one really spoke out about it before it happened so its bs to say you really cared before it was blown up like this

[other]

I'm not over it, i still hear people talking about it in school (perticualry teachers with students). Lockers came to our school to speak to the teachers this mourning. The teachers and admistration aren't over it. Just we've all said our oppions and thats it for the convo (which is why i didn't propigate the never ending argument that i was having, any further)

[whuknu]

To be honest im not over it yet either. I already said why im still upset so im not going to say it again. luckst4rs, ur right no one really did talk about it b4, mayeb bc its not really at the top of everyones head.

[brokentruth]

Alright, after readin all the posts in the thread i have come to the conclusion that we all are very confused about each situation. I know for a fact that no one from the school is getting expelled. The kids that were arrested are all being punished and the kids that admitted to be using drugs were punished even worse. Now theres another issue that has risen above the drugs and alcohol. The school found out about kids having oral sex in that house that was busted. These kids are dealing with an even harsher punishment. Do you feel that sexual acts are worse than drugs?

[kiyara]

i didnt know about that part....thats weird bc it i did something like that i wouldnt think like "oh, im disobeying my school and admins" i would think "im disobeying the torah/God"

[luckst4rs]

i'm sorry but if we want to have sex it should have NOTHING to do with the school. and if the school finds out about a kid having sex of any type they have NO right to punish them. kids can touch and do those kind of things if they want to. it might be against the torah but has nothing to do with the school. get the hell out of it. if i would have sex and be worried i'd be a little apprehensive about disobeying the torah like kiyara said not "what if the administration finds out then ill be in trouble".... idiots.

[whuknu]

well not everyone feels that way kiyara (i mean persoanlly id most likely agree with u) but some kids dont believen God or dont care about God or about the Torah. Some might but they still have hormones and whtvr. but from a legal perspective- thats not illegal- so that has nothing to do with the arrest- but jsut out of curiosity- if u dont mind sharing with us brokentruth- how do u know about this? were u at the party/ or go to the school? u dont have to say if u dont want. But bc this is a jewish provate school, the kids arent expected to be havign sex or even oral sex. but u see if they really are getting punished then u see that these kids arent just getting punished bc of getting busted and now we are embarrased- but bc they did something that is against what the school stands for! after that party i was talking to a friend and she told me she thought sex was worse than drugs/alcohol- but i disagreed bc as long as these kids are having safe sex then healthwise whats the problem? but if they get drunk they could be doing something not so safe and getting hurt. but from a Torah point of view- i really dont know which is worse.

[luckst4rs]

yea but i think sex might be worse for some people. i know my family would be more disappointed if they knew i had sex than if they knew i smoked weed or whatever.

[CptCatz]

whuknu,its all around school that two specific kids did give each other oral sex, by now its a known fact. the only thing i didnt hear is that they are being punished for it.

[whuknu]

oh well then i better get with it...

[other]

Why is this any of the schools bissnues what goes on sexualy out of school? The school can't tell you how to lead your life out of school.

[whuknu]

same reason that its their businees that the kids where drinking/getting high ( i know not all of them were doing that) outside of school on the weekend.

[brokentruth]

Well, im not gonna divulge any information about myself but i will tell you that im very close to this issue and i know alot about what happened in the situation. The kids that were having oral sex were given a harsher punishment then any other kid that was either at the party or admitted to smoking weed there. Its def not illegal and it maybe against Torah but it seems as though in this day and age drugs are a much worse situation then sex. I know for a fact that there are some religious kids who wont smoke weed, wont drink but will ingage in sexual conduct. That to them is alright.

[booklet0519]

drugs really ruin your body, adn sex doesn't really. so i agree with whuknu... safe sex is better than drugs, but you should be pressured into doing either, adn you should understand what you are doing to yourself.

[PrUnE]

drugs is alot more serious then sex, if i was doin drugs and i got caught i would be in alot more trouble then if i was havin sex and iw as caught, oral sex or just sex.

[PrUnE]

why all this is right
drugs and drinking and sex (altohugh not prominent in this case) are major parts of the real world. when you go to college and leave this tiny jewish bubble you will see how common all this stuff is and how nonchalant people are about it. that's why some kids feel as though smoking and drinking aren't a big deal- they have seen how outside of the yehsiva world people act about it and they relate to it as many kids in yeshivas think it's the worst thing in the world- they might not be used to how common it is. of course i'm not saying it being common makes it the right thing to do. just it makes it a bigger deal if you arent used to it.I personally dont think its a bad thing myself, just parents make the biggest deals out of it, and thats why kids sometimes do.

[PrUnE]

i don't care what the real world thinks.. addiction is a problem and our tolerance to it just makes the problem worse.

i think the 9/10 graders and prob also the 11/12 should learn what drugs do to your body, adn that the cool they bring is a kind of disgust adn temperary...

i also agree thatb if the moron who brought them confesses, the situation gets a lot better.

i am assuming that being arrested doesn't look good on a college resume.......

drugs are illegal poeple, adn doing them kills cells.... you are more prone to illness adn live shorter lives...if you hate yor life so much see a therapist... or amke good and trustworthy friends.... doing drugs are SUCH A STUPID CHOICE!A. people dont get addicted to drugs, they want it, addicted is when u need it, sugrats are addictive.

B.People of there choice to do it or not themseleves, it might be illegal but then again, u can take an 2 hour trip to canada every once in a while and do them and no one cares.

C.Doing drugs isnt neccaserly stupid, some ppl like to "live on the edge" and others just like to have fun, by gettin high and exc. not all the time do u die younger when u do it, sometimes u do, sometimes u dont.

[whuknu]

I wrote a whole thing and then it got lost! i hate that. neways, if i want to do something, its not bc my parents say the opposit. its bc I WANT TO. which probably explains why i dont do any ofthese things cuz i dont want to. now maybe some ppl do want to, but if its cuz of our parents, well thats getting a little unfortunate. ok so some of us dont have the best parents, in fact some of us have horrible parents (not that im saying mine are, mine a re pretty ok), but still. whtvr i guess i cant say nething until ive been in other ppls shoes.

Neways, I'm pretty upset. But forget the school, forget my classmates, im talkign about one of my best friends. i was best friends with her since we were little kids. we did everything together. except a few yrs ago she decided she no longer wanted to be frum which was fine but we still hung out. then she started smoking. then she started drinking and doing drugs, dating and older guy. then she ditched me- pretty much for all this. and what makes me so mad is her parents gave her cigaret money! my parents maybe would give me nicotine patch money if the could afford it, but not cigaret money. she doesnt talk to me bc shes to busy getting high on the weekends. ppl who do drugs, just think about ppl u may have once been friends with, the ones u knew since u were kids, did tehy do something awful so they shoud lose their friends?

[luckst4rs]

man people do **** because it's fun. that's my reason at least. i have no freakin idea why i smoke cigarettes but now i'm just addicted and i don't wanna stop. eh. teenagers will be teenagers regardless of the torah and parents. some do things to "rebel" some do things cuz they think its cool but some just wanna have fun and be young and stupid. when you tell people they are stupid for doing stuff they think i want to be stupid maybe... at least i do...

[PrUnE]

some kids do it for fun and they just dont care about anything, so if u tell them its stupid they just wont care the only thing on there mind is to have fun and my mind :-)

[whuknu]

what about their friends? do they not care about them?

[luckst4rs]

i didn't really know where to fit this cuz this is a little off the topic of what happened. but what i was wondering is why in hell do people look down on others if they have sex or smoke or whatver? like it might be against your moral code but honestly why should you make someone else feel stupid for what they do? you don't have to do it yourself. i mean if you think your friend needs help or something that's one thing but when people who aren't even close to you preach or just when people in general act better than others because they don't do so called "bad stuff" i think its dumb. i understnad you can be concered about the health of others and such but you have no right to act all high and mighty and preach and all. i especially hate it when people use the torah as a weapon almost to prove it. i mean it's awesome if you see it as the guide to life and the answer to everything but it's not cool to attack someone with a page of gemara. education is great and having a healthy conversation about it cool but when people comment on others' way of life its frustrating. i just don't get it what the point is? just wanted to say that because i've been wondering why when it comes to the more negative things people butt in but if someone's a good person or whatever they don't care.

[kiyara]

uhh...live on the edge? of what, the spectrum of life? as in, die soon?
come on, thats a euphemism for living dangeoursly and stupidly.

[other]

As to the comments on sex vs drugs i just have two feelings:

1. Most of the things that very basic drugs (aka pot) or smoking can do to you are mostly revesable, AIDS and other stds aren't. You get it and there is no turning back.

2. If you are going to travel two hrs just to smoke a joint you officaly have a big problem

[whuknu]

Woah luckst4rs- I know that I when I was little bit younger did do a little preaching-yes now I realize I shouldn’t have and I apologize to anyone who I may have preached to. But I stopped doing that long b4 my friend started with all this. Also im really happy that u are so open to other ppls views… thank u. and ur right no one should use Torah as a weapon.

[brokentruth]

all the things we do in this age shoudld not be looked down upon in any way. we are teens. we have sex and do drugs. This is the only time we have to exiriment. I feel as though when kids claim to have a problem with all this ****, they're just saying that because they wanna be depressed. Yes i know its sad. That my only explanation for stupid things that are done ie. cutting and popping pills. But weed is just a tool that we use as teens to learn. Theres nothing that gemara can do to tell us teens that we shouldnt o it its not right. Its all life.

[whuknu]

well im a teen im in high school-its my time to experiment too. but u know what? i dont experiment with drugs and alcohol and sex. bc i know whtvr i do to my body now i can never get back what i lose. so it feels good for the time being... but no one seems to be able to answer my question about the friends ppl may leave beihind when they choose drugs over them? why? is it bc no one has a good answer? dont any of u feel bad that u left ur friend? or is it just a fact of life? i lost my friend and i should sti back and watch her throw her life away bc shes a teen ager and experimenting? the kids at my school that were at this party got some sort of punishment but the athletes, were they even kicked off the team? i heard not. thats not fair, does smoking and alcohol and drugs hurt ur game? im sry im just really upset.

[luckst4rs]

i know how people feel about the loss of friends over drugs and experimenting but being on both sides of the issue i realized its not necessarily choosing drugs over you but more or less outgrowing you. sometimes people get into a stage of their lives where they want to live a certain way and it really just is a different level. like i have friends who i used to be so close with but i realize i have drifted from them and its not a me choosing a different crowd over them because of the sex and drugs thing but because they are at the same place as me in my life. my other friends are more sheltered and are focused on different things as me and i feel like we just don't relate to each other the same as before. it isnt a "id rather do this than be friends with you" you shouldnt take it so personally just people change for the better and for the worse and outgrow people. i mean it sucks if you used to be so close and you never talk anymore but it happens. people grow up and change their focus. it can hurt when someone decides you arent at the same level as them anymore but it happens.

[Comfortably Dumb]

I'm honestly starting to think this is getting blown way out of proportion.

[other]

all the things we do in this age shoudld not be looked down upon in any way. we are teens. we have sex and do drugs. This is the only time we have to exiriment. I feel as though when kids claim to have a problem with all this ****, they're just saying that because they wanna be depressed. Yes i know its sad. That my only explanation for stupid things that are done ie. cutting and popping pills. But weed is just a tool that we use as teens to learn. Theres nothing that gemara can do to tell us teens that we shouldnt o it its not right. Its all life.


So on that premis, it is ok for me to jump off a cliff because i want to know what it feals like?

What you said is right, but olny to a point. There are certain things which we can't afford to find out on our own. Many mistakes can olny be made once and once you've made them there is no turning back.

[whuknu]

i guess ur right. but just bc someone dosnt do drugs or drink or nething doesnt make them sheltered. maybe they are for other reasons but not that. but ur prob right about growing out friends. but i feel like she just started hanging out with the wrong crowd so stopped hanging out with me. maybe its a little of both?

[luckst4rs]

yea it could be both. but sometimes people grow up grow of people. it sucks but it happens. not everyone is best friends for ever. people have to learn how to face that.

[whuknu]

CD- how is this getting blown out of proportion?

Good point other- but please dont jump off a cliff- i guess technically u could jump off if u wanted to. ppl commit suicide- generally cuz they want to.

luckst4rs- maybe ur right i just think shes basically throwing her life away- i dont think she uses once in a while- i feel like its more often then that u know? fine she doesnt want to be my friend anymore- but id hate to see her well the way she is right now.

[booklet0519]

i don't think being a teen is agood exuse to do drugs adn haev sex... you can never take the effects away

[whuknu]

i agree its not a good excuse... but it doesnt stop anyone

[luckst4rs]

there is no good excuse. but there are things people say to justify it for themselves. and when you can make yourself comfortable with whatever you are doing then you have no problem doing it.

[other]

has anone seen the letter that was sent out by the principal of the school? Any reactions?

[kiyara]

what letter....?

[other]

my parents got an e-mil about \whats going on

[The Nameless One]

-I agree that it's being blown out of proportion, but i'm glad that it is. If it wasn't then there would be no lesson learned, people would keep doing it. Instead it was posted all over the news, people are making a big deal out of it b/c i was a big chillul Hasem and it's an embarassment to the jews.

-you might think it's fun to experement with drugs and sex, but why? I don't see the fun in condemming yourself to and early death. i think people do it because they're insecure and they won't admitt it. People commit sucide when they're not in the right mindframe and they lose their lives to it. You can lose your life to Drugs too. Just because it's wrong doesn't stop people an i think that's sad. I am strongly against it and i'm not sheltered. I myself chose not to go to a school where it would be a problem, my school didn't send out a letter b/c they didn't feel it was necesssary, and it wasn't. I chose that way of life instead of going to schools like this one and i'm happy and strong and able to say no to drugs.

[whuknu]

The nameless one- i promise u- there are kids who do drugs at your school too. the school i go to does not affect the decisions i make. i dont do drugs bc i dont want to, even though i go to this school.

[The Nameless One]

nope there are about 70 girls in my school? I know almost everybody very well, thre are about 10 girls who i don't know, but none of the 60 i do know do drugs. This is why i chose this school b/c girls are more like a family so when they get stressed they don't turn to drugs. there was 1 girl who did, but she left b/c the school wasn't her type.

[whuknu]

oh i might know your school - but maybe the drugs are just kept quiter there? and i know most of the smaller girls schools have had their fair share of problems too.

[kiyara]

um, wow! since when are schools names being allowed on here?

[shufleye]

they're not. the mod who was on last night made a mistake... i guess they're human :rolleyes:

anyhow, kiyara is right. all members should remember that the overarching value of The Lockers is "Issues, Not Names..."
(see the member agreement if u forgot about this... http://www.thelockers.net/forum/cond.php (http://www.thelockers.net/forum/cond.php))

among the many reasons this is critical (and there are many), one of them is particularly relevant right now - especially for members posting on this thread: when we need to advocate for you guys, like we have been over the past several weeks, its critical that the schools respect The Lockers and not feel directly threatened by it....


~ shufleye - yer friendly neighborhood admin

[PrUnE]

the school is only giving punishments to kids because they want to keep there rep. good, they can lie all they want about how they care for us, but its complete bs, if they really cared they wouldnt expell kids.

[whuknu]

Prune- they do care- maybe u dont think they do and maybe they arent very good at showing it- but they do. but maybe ur right- part if it could be about the rep. u know ppl arent going to want to go to the school- and in order for them to keep the school is to have students (yes i know they have money, but whats a school w/o students?) and they have to CARE about these students. they really do.

[PrUnE]

From friend: the fact taht our administration mentioned the schools reputation when he was talking about the subject just shows their ignorance....we had a wideschool meeting and in this meeting they were tlaking about the whole situation and to try to explain to kids why we do drugs....and i dont understand why they had a to mention the schools rep in this meeting..it shows how they only care about the rep..they said this incident will hurt our (the school"s) recruiting...i mean from a kids point of veiw why would we care at all bout this if they really wanted us to stop doing drugs for the reason that it hurts ourselves and not for the reason that it hurts the school they shouldnt have gone that way in the speech.

[whuknu]

ok so im really upset about this whole incident. not just bc it happened or anything. but b4 this incident ppl would ask me what school i went to and i would say- and theyd say "oh u go there" like its a bad thing and i would say its not a bad school, ppl just make it out to be and so on. mostly i think its bc ppl dont take pride in their school- school is what u make it to be. now ppl say to me "oh u go there, were u at the party, why arent the kids expelled..." and so on. i try so hard to stand up for these kids, my school, the administration. ppl say this school is terrible, its awful, no school is worse, which isnt necceserally true- every school has there issues.

So now for those of u who were at this party and do drugs and drink and all this, u know that there are consequences for urselves, but what about ppl like me? dont u think about us? its not like we are the enemy. we are simply ur peers, trying to make our own ways in the world. yeh we can ignore things, but its not that simple. i hate to hear ppl talk about my peers in such terrible ways! so tell me, what can i do?

[whuknu]

prune- dont u want to be able to take pride in where u learn? i mean when it comes to applying to college- dont u want to be able to say that u went to a wonderful private school? not one where half the kids were trouble makers or whtvr (not that im saying they are)? for me- i spend more than half of m waking hours at school- i should be able to take some pride in it!!! i should be able to say to 8th graders- "come to my school- its a wonderful place!" the school needs to care about its rep- it needs to have studnets in future yrs. and they care about it for us as well- if colleges look at someone like m-e lets say my grades are fine my sats are fine- they like everything- except then they see- this girl went to this school- this school had a party... got busted....... so on so forth. maybe they will think that i am a trouble maker- maybe im not the best kid and maybe they dont want me at their school cuz of that. so again- ppl like me should suffer cuz of this? now u may think its silly that a college will cae- but most likely they do.

[other]

purne-

We do pay the price for having a bad reputation. Along with what whunknu said the less kids that come to the school the less money there is to go around and\or less teachers and veriaty (the more kids you have, the more you have small groups and what not which may olny intrest a few kids).

It dosn't bother me that the school worries about the schools reputation, it bothers me that the schools WORRIES MOST about the schools reputation. The olny thing some of them worry about more is their own reputation.

p.s

When someone asks me about my school i say "My school is a great place, but i dont think i could ever recomend it to someone else". My school is a place where most people fall to the wayside and get a bad shake, You have to be a very spesfic type of kid to get the most out of my school.

[booklet0519]

i agree that colleges will care, but i think that they haev a right to try and limit drug use on their campus... but they do take into account that high schol is for experimentation

[whuknu]

exoerimentation for what? getting arrested? all of ur life is an experiment! u dont knwo what will happen next. when u get married, thats an experiment, having kids- experiments. life is an experiment- so colleges should just say oh this kid got C's but did well on his sats- he msut have only gotten C's bc in stead of studying on the weekends he was "experimenting"? so thats ok? and me, i work hard for my decent- not perfect- decent grades- he should get in over me bc i wasnt experimenting on the weekends and my sat scores are jsut "ok"???????????????

[irarg]

I didn't read all the posts so i'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet. The worst of it all was the terrible Chillul Hashem it created. Fine, the kids that went have serious problems and need help, but they just gave the goyim an excuse to jump on all of Klal Yisroel. The paper metioned that these were yeshiva students. and especially when right after this the story came out about the Shchita place in Iowa. one of the most central centers for "kosher" Schita and they have accurate videos showing how the people there treated the animals. all i will say is that it was not in accordance with halachah and definitely not with proper human conduct and behavior. disgusting. if we actually set a good example for the nations and behaved like a "light unto the nations" then perhaps their attitude towards us will simmer down a little. and this is not just for those peopel that went to that party. this is a message for all of Klal Yisroel. i'm not Chas Vishalom suspecting that anyone would do something like that party again, but all of us have to act like proper Bnei Torah and Bnos Yisroel when we walk on the street with our Kipos and Tznius dress. how many times do i have to hear relatively late at night teenagers screaming and yelling and talking like the world is deaf. I look out and i see they are obviously not jewish. but do we ever consider that that's perhaps the way we might act sometimes? loud, disruptive, wild? cool does not mean to act like that. cool could mean setting a good example. being a leader. i think we should take this into account when socializing with our friends, but also being a light unto the nations.

[whuknu]

irarg- not all of these students at the party have a "serious" problem, i believe that some of them may sometimes use drugs, or some of them may have not used drugs and just be at the party for the fun of it. your right it is a chilul Hashem. the problem is that the Yeshiva world, aka our world, has been denying that there are problems, and there fore not taking care of the problems. they like to look outside at the disappointments of the rest of the world. the reason this was made to be such a big deal was partly bc IT IS a yeshiva! we arent perfect!

[other]

We've hit an all time low: and article more than a page long (a newspaper page) in the sunday NY TIMES nj section, mentions lots of details

[other]

Correction: 1/2 page+ part of the front page of the section, about half talks directly about our beloved event

[whuknu]

again? u mean in addition to the original? can u post this?

[other]

I can't find it online, but i was holding it in my had, it was the front of the NJ secton. Its not online though.

[whuknu]

oh well what does it say? not the whole thing, just summarize?

[kiyara]

i founf it - its on sundays NJ section. it just talks a lot about how today teens are doing a lot of drugs and substance abuse, it uses this particular party to start off the article.

[whuknu]

oh great... more embarrasment...just what i was hoping for. why? why do they have to do that? cant they find some public school? wasnt it enough the article from a few weeks ago?
what does it say about this school and party?

[ColdTruth]

irarg - I'm absolutely appalled at what you said. Do you really believe that the kids who went to this party have serious problems? Feel free to enumerate the exact problems that these kids have.

Also, if you feel so strongly that these kids have issues then I'm gona let you in on something. Kids party. People party. The whole world parties. Does the whole world have problems? It's already been established that there was a relatively small amount of alcohol at this party and barely any marijuana. This was one of society's - and one of the yeshiva world's - tamer parties. Sure, there was a party and yeah, these kids got caught, but does that make them any worse than the other kids who are doing the same thing and are lucky enough to have not been arrested? You can continue to say this was a chillul hashem and all that bull***t rhetoric comin outa your mouth, but truth be told, you're just isolating this problem from the ubiquitous issue of teenage substance abuse and the greater party lifestyle that exists today. Thats not correct!

CT

[PrUnE]

ok so im really upset about this whole incident. not just bc it happened or anything. but b4 this incident ppl would ask me what school i went to and i would say- and theyd say "oh u go there" like its a bad thing and i would say its not a bad school, ppl just make it out to be and so on. mostly i think its bc ppl dont take pride in their school- school is what u make it to be. now ppl say to me "oh u go there, were u at the party, why arent the kids expelled..." and so on. i try so hard to stand up for these kids, my school, the administration. ppl say this school is terrible, its awful, no school is worse, which isnt necceserally true- every school has there issues.

So now for those of u who were at this party and do drugs and drink and all this, u know that there are consequences for urselves, but what about ppl like me? dont u think about us? its not like we are the enemy. we are simply ur peers, trying to make our own ways in the world. yeh we can ignore things, but its not that simple. i hate to hear ppl talk about my peers in such terrible ways! so tell me, what can i do?honestlyu why dop u care about the rep of the school our school, weho cares dont care about what other ppl think of our school.

[other]

purne-

We do pay the price for having a bad reputation. Along with what whunknu said the less kids that come to the school the less money there is to go around and\or less teachers and veriaty (the more kids you have, the more you have small groups and what not which may olny intrest a few kids).

It dosn't bother me that the school worries about the schools reputation, it bothers me that the schools WORRIES MOST about the schools reputation. The olny thing some of them worry about more is their own reputation.

p.s

When someone asks me about my school i say "My school is a great place, but i dont think i could ever recomend it to someone else". My school is a place where most people fall to the wayside and get a bad shake, You have to be a very spesfic type of kid to get the most out of my school.

see what i just said above

[whuknu]

thank u other.
Prune- I take pride in my school, in my place of education, where i learn not only general studies, but Torah as well! a place where maybe not everyone has learnt this, but i have, ive learnt that life is not always easy. at this school many ppl do take the easy way- and it makes me sad! Maybe i shouldnt care about what other ppl say- but u see im having my israel interviews now- whats going to happen when a rosh from a seminary comes and interviews me and lets sey i have everything the school wants- but someone else from a diferent school gets in over me simply bc my school has a bad rep? there u go- i suffer.

[luckst4rs]

its the same as stereotypes
people stereotype groups a certain way and people in those groups (like racial, social, whatever) can get the short end of the stick because they are in that group. it happens. life is unfair. deal with it.
you shouldn'y be judged by the whole but that's the way people are. the school shouldn't take someone else over you because of your school. but it happens all the time and not just because of school reps.

[whuknu]

i know it happens sometimes not cuz of the schools rep but if it does than thats just wrong. i shouldnt just have to deal with it- ppl should think not only about THEMSELVES. if they are its being selfish- if u dont want to follow anything else in the Torah fine- but what about mitxvot that are ben adam lchaveiro? fine dont believen God, God can handle it alot better than humans- but when one goes and hurts his friend- the friend is not God- the friend isnt just going to deal with it!

[luckst4rs]

make it all about just you why don't you!

[other]

I agree with you whuknu, but i would take that a step further: Why even mention ben adam lachavaro. Screw that! What about just being a decent human being?

[whuknu]

ok i didnt mean to make it all about me- i meant ppl LIKE me.

[whuknu]

but this isnt about me- i meant ppl like me- dotn u have ne friends that arent partiers? ppl who u care about that u dont smoke with?

[whuknu]

part of being a decent human being is mitzvot ben adam lchaveiro, other- if u are decent then u think about others- if ur not that why care about other ppl?

[other]

But take a waya the idea of jewidisum, that way ppl can't say thjey don't belive in g-d as an excuse

[whuknu]

thats why its ben adam lchaveiro that is important more so here than ben adam lmakom- doesnt matter of one believens God or not- they still have to treat others- take america for example- america is not a religios coutry (ie-its not a jewish state or christians state) so u dont have to believen God but it is still illegal to do things that maybe ben adam lchaveiro- for example u cant kill, cheat, steal- why should God care about those things? these are things that are ben adam limakom and therefore they are important. perosnally other, i dont see how the mitzvot ben adam lchaveiro are a religios aspect of life but we are entitled to out opinions. neways it doesnt matter the point here is that ppl should care that what they do may effect their friends.

[irarg]

coldtruth-i apologize if you misunderstood. what i mean by serious problems is regarding drugs and alcohol. to actually have the guts to do something so disgusting and putting your life in danger and violating Halachah is horrible. and for those people that didn't do any of that they still shouldn't have been at the party if they knew it was going to happen and if they didn't know they should have left when they saw it. one must stay away from evil even if you think you won't get involved. as Rashi brings down in Parshas Korach- Oy Larasha Oy Lashcheino (woe is to the Rosho and woe unto his neighbor). these kids need help. badly. and Baruch Hashem there are many jewish psychologists and psychiotrists and even web sites like this and many other resources which can help them. what they did removes one from Hashem and the Torah. as Rav Yosef Dov Haleivi Soloveitchik zt"l was quoted in "Al Hatshuva" and he said when one sins it changes his personality and only once he does Teshuva can his Torah and proper personality come back out. The only way to become close to Hashem is by keeping His Mitzvos and learning His Torah. Chas Vishalom the opposite when we do unholy things such as this "party" we become further away from Hashem as the Rav was referring to-Rachmana Litzlan.
P.S the parties you were referring to about how "everyone parties" is not Jewish parties and such co-ed parties should not be attended in my humble opinion for it takes one away from the Torah and might Chas Vishalom cause a boy to touch a girl if there is so much sexual tension in the place and a boy might Chas Vishalom Touch a girl or worse-Rachmana Litzlan.

[whuknu]

irarg r u in high school?

[irarg]

yes. why?

[whuknu]

while i agree with alot of what u say- i cant say that its fair for us to come down THAT hard on our peers. most of us have our issues- be them with out parents ,God, ourselves, our friends. I know that i have sounded concerned with myself and ppl like myself in this very thread and i myself have come down a bit hard on ppl but i cant say that i am being unfair. in this thread we already discussed why partying is bad for the person doing it. not everyone cares about what God says- not everyone necesarily believens God.

[irarg]

If one would Chas Vishalom believe that Hashem does--n-o-t (i don't even want to write it) exist Chos vishalom why would one even consider his self esteem or have any self respect. I remember reading a section in Les Miserables when two people were having a discussion. an atheist and a bishop. although i don't want to act like a bishop is on our side i think in this respect we all must agree that Hashem exists even a bishop. the bishop said that out purpose in this world is to do good and be a good person for that's what G-D sent us here for. (and in Judaism this also includes doing the Mitzvos, Learning Torah, and being an Ohr Lagoyim). the athiest said that "G-D" is only a concept which is good for poor people who can't enjoy themselves in this world so they want to feel wanted in this world so they make up this crazy concept. and he believed that one should enjoy himself all he wants in this world. if that's the case why would someone who doesn't Chos Visholom believe in Hashem want to care about what's good for him? all he should care about is how much he's enjoying himself. I believe that the only way to prosecute against these people that go to these parties is to use Torah and the teachings of Judaism.

[other]

irarg-

After reading your posts i have to say, i respect the levle you are on and that you can lead your life like that, but i have to say i dont think most of us are on that levle or people who lead our lives using those kind of thought processes

[whuknu]

a person can be good w/o believening God. And Bishops arent bad ppl irarg- u make them sound as if they are absolutely awful and this is the only amount of good thye have. they have a diferent faith than us- that doesnt make them evil- they might be for other reasons but not all of them. but thats not the point here.

[luckst4rs]

use the torah to PROSECUTE? it is not a weapon. and the more you act like it is, the more hatred is developed towards it.

[whuknu]

i dont think anyone is using the torah as a wapon here.

[luckst4rs]

I believe that the only way to prosecute against these people that go to these parties is to use Torah and the teachings of Judaism.

using it as a weapon.....

[whuknu]

thank u- now i understand what u r talking about. so i am not irarg and i really cant talk for him but i can say that if that were coming from me, which it didnt, then i would simply mean that the Torah should be used to teach (not in a weapon sort of way) and bring ppl closer to judaism and further away from their present ways.

[CptCatz]

irarg, your crazy if you think that the people that went to the party actually care about what god has to think of all this. and as whuknu said, you dont have to believe in god to be a good person, thats another crazy statement.

[forget]

you can be a good person without believing in god or keeping miztvot

[whuknu]

cptctz- u think what i sed is crazy? i dont think it is at all- i mean i believen God and find myself to be a good person- but i have come across a few ppl who dont beleiven God- and all of them are seemingly decent human beings.

[irarg]

of course one can be a good person without having complete Emunah. But, how can one Chos Visholom deny the most basic idea in Judaism? "Shema Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad!" Why do you think this is the first Posuk for a child to learn? This is what we believe in. one might as well trash everything else if one doesn't believe in this. why is it the first commandment in the aseres hadibros? because all the other ones can't be without it. if you don't believe in Hashem c"v why would you consider taking a good day to go to the movies and mcdonalds with your boyfriend or girlfriend to rest and learn and keep Shabbos? why should one not be allowed to tell his parent their wrong? why if my father says we live in kansas i'm not allowed to say "no we don't, we live in new jersey" ? because Hashem said so. i'm not saying you can't be a good person if you don't c"v believe in The Creator of every little cell in your body and that even if one cell was misfunctioning for less time than a scientist can even count you would drop dead. It's not that if you are alive and healthy and walk outside under the most beautiful blue sky and green grass that just "happens" to be there throught the big bang. "well, it's just coincidence that every human comes out the way they do. coincidence, coincidence, coincidence. that i have two arms with i don't know how many bones with i don't know how many cells in it with how many electrons? and protons? and neutrons? organelles? and how many trillions of atoms in each one? and Wow!" alright. if you don't believe in Hashem after concidering that then i feel tremendous sympathy for you that you are throwing away the mind that Hashem gave you.
and aobut the bishop. for most of jewish history we have not had the best friendship with the church. now they are better. Chos Visholom i would believe that nowadays they're bad people.

[Teenager]

of course one can be a good person without having complete Emunah. But, how can one Chos Visholom deny the most basic idea in Judaism? "Shema Yisroel, Hashem Elokeinu, Hashem Echad!" Why do you think this is the first Posuk for a child to learn? This is what we believe in.

No that is what YOU believe in, if you haven't realized not everyone on this board does

The Creator of every little cell in your body and that even if one cell was misfunctioning for less time than a scientist can even count you would drop dead. It's not that if you are alive and healthy and walk outside under the most beautiful blue sky and green grass that just "happens" to be there throught the big bang. "well, it's just coincidence that every human comes out the way they do. coincidence, coincidence, coincidence. that i have two arms with i don't know how many bones with i don't know how many cells in it with how many electrons? and protons? and neutrons? organelles? and how many trillions of atoms in each one? and Wow!" alright. if you don't believe in Hashem after concidering that then i feel tremendous sympathy for you that you are throwing away the mind that Hashem gave you.

that us all in your option, no of it can be fully 100% proven.

p.s.

Judaism does believe in the Big Bang theory, I just got back from a shiur showing us how, from a notable rabbi who has expertise in this area.

[whuknu]

irarg- u may not realize this but ppl unfortunately may have been given reason not to believen God...I mean i do believen God...oh btw that whole if one thing is malfunctioning that does not mean a person will die

and just bc if someone doesnt believen God does not mean ok now he doesnt have to treat others with respect- he still has too- unless he wants to be treated badly in return

[irarg]

i never said the big bang didn't occur but my point was it didnt' occur without some creator of the big bang. the first Ramban in the Torah discusses the big bang. but the last thing that happenned that it was just by chance.
teenager- what do you mean that can't be 100% proven? it's not proven by scientists about cells and all that? what's the purpose of learning science. i believe that the most important thing one can learn when learning science is the Niflos Haborei. if one does not comprehend that all that he is learning is the miraculous and beyond human comprehension ways of Hashem then i believe there is absolutely no purpose at all in learning it. and perhaps that's why some people don't believe that when they learn science because it is beyond human comprehension. and because one can't understand how it's done they say it must be coincidence. and as someone mentioned in another thread that scientists have figured out the "hows" in science. (i.e how our body works, how the solar system works etc.) but they have not figured out the "whys" and that's why, according to the author of that idea, it is impossible to learn science without knowing that there is a G-D. to say c"v " i d--0 n---0---------t c"v believe in Hashem, is no excuse. although it may not seem this way through the way i've been writing, i am usually very open to different ideas. but when it comes to the topic of G-D it is black and white as well as a few other things mostly to do with Judaism. I can talk about why Hashem exists but i will refuse to "respect" an opinion that does not believe in ONE G-D. i will talk about it and discuss it but not respect it. It is the basis of man kind and i believe it's stupid to say the words of denial of Hashem C"V.

[whuknu]

irarg- here i am trying to say that those who dont believe in God (not multiple Gods, no GOD!) should still treat us well, yet u cant even respect their opinions? you dont have to agree with them but u should at least respect their opinions, or else then I cant argue what I've been arguing here. This forum is supposed to be about the party- not the kids belief in God- and when i sed that whether these kids believen God or not, they should still think about their peers somewhat- whether they should believen God or not does not go to this discussion, i simply wanted to know WHY these kids couldnt think about their peers not about their faith.

[Teenager]

] I can talk about why Hashem exists but i will refuse to "respect" an opinion that does not believe in ONE G-D. i will talk about it and discuss it but not respect it. It is the basis of man kind and i believe it's stupid to say the words of denial of Hashem C"V.


Thats pretty @#$%^ up we should respect everyones opion, it is their right to have it. You might dissagree with it but why wouldn't you respect. Some people find much of jewdisum "stupid", but they still respect it.

[CptCatz]

cptctz- u think what i sed is crazy? i dont think it is at all- i mean i believen God and find myself to be a good person- but i have come across a few ppl who dont beleiven God- and all of them are seemingly decent human beings. haha, no. i said, and as whuknu said, you dont have to believe in god to be a good person, thats another crazy statement. i'll try to rephrase what i said. "and i agree with what whuknu said. you dont have to believe in god to be a good person, that is a crazy statement. that better?

and because one can't understand how it's done they say it must be coincidence. and as someone mentioned in another thread that scientists have figured out the "hows" in science. (i.e how our body works, how the solar system works etc.) but they have not figured out the "whys" and because people like you cant understand how its done, they say it must be god.
you say they have not figured out the "whys", how do you know there are "whys"? i recommend everyone see the movie "Cube". it gives you a lot of thought of why things happen. in my opinion, there is no "why". everything happens because of nature and there is no reason why a particular thing happens. when an apple falls off a tree, it happens because gravity is pulling it down and the stem cant stay connected to the tree anymore. plain and simple.

[booklet0519]

irarg... most fo us are here b/c we don;t have what you call perfect faith. becasue we think about life, we might come to the same conclusions as you adn the traditional rabbis, but it doens't really matter, bc thats not the point. yes it reflects badly on jews in general, but i have nt heard of any antisemetic accidents bc of it... there was a general party, adn being touched by a boy in the 21st century does not mean you end in bed with him. i do local theater, adn i haev touched a lot of boys, sat on knees etc... adn i am still virgin! i think you are only looking at a few cases adn generalizing like freud did, but it isn't the truth for everybody.....

i think i speak for everyone else here when i say that we don't have "emunah shlamah" , but we want to find something we can beleive in, adn i also think we shoud end the subject.. its really not fair to you that we are allattaking you for your faith.. if it worlks for you, fine, but please respect other ppls opinion!

[irarg]

cptcatz- let me ask you a question. if i were to show you a very well written book with good ideas and a good story. the book has a beautiful cover and nice binding. You will come and ask me who wrote that book. I go and tell you that no one wrote it and ink fell onto the pages and made those letters and just by coincidence the cover came on and paint fell on it in that design of the cover and glue binded the binding together. all by coincidence that glue just happened to spillout while the pages with spilled ink were on a table and so forth. you would think i'm crazy. what do you mean you would ask me. of course there was a good author and it was taken to a proffessional to put a binding on and all of that. alot of time and effort was spent making it.
I think the Mashal is obvious. the world couldn't have just came into being. that the world is so beatiful and everything. the beatiful blue sky and beautiful green grass and trees and living creatures. and how we work. and how we get food. and now that scientists have discovered all these cool things like cells and all of that it just shows the glory and incomprehensible miracles and miracles and miracles that The Creator of the world performs for us every little moment of everylittle second. Thank You Hashem! I love You so much! Thank You so much for doing these tremendous and beyond amazing acts of kindess for me everyday! thank You so much!
It is no coincidence. and in fact i don't believe in using the word coincidence. i never say something's a coincidence. never. even if someone meets someone lets say at the grocery market and it just happens to be you saw that person an hour ago. even if you didn't say anythign at all to that person. you thought to yourself "what a coincidence". i dont' think it's a coincidence at all. Hashem controls everything.
and because there is a creator that creator must control everything that goes on. of course it's beyond our comprehension so that's why it's probably so hard for you to believe this but you should know it's Emes.

[forget]

what does this have to do with the arrest? seperate thread alert!

[booklet0519]

there has to be a supervisor to the world, but that doens't mean that all "bosses" o the work... once we get past a certain point in history, there's no need of a god.. grass will continue to reproduce, adn while it maybe took some one to put the pieces together in the first place, the ppl who make my computer just maek it, adn then it runs on it's own/....

[whuknu]

ok i think i got it now cptctz- but whats crazy?
Forget-u r so right- i was thinking of asking the same thing.
Irarg- we get the point- i think it is wonderful ur emunah is soooo strong- i wish i was on that level already- but no matter ur level of faith- u cant judge others. u just cant- its not possible- unless u can tell me that uve been in my shoes and everyone shoes here. u cant not respect our opinions bc u know what- not respecting ur fellow person is not keeping mitzvot ben adam lchaveiro! ever think of that?

[Comfortably Dumb]

Why must this thread go on?

[other]

cptcatz- let me ask you a question. if i were to show you a very well written book with good ideas and a good story. the book has a beautiful cover and nice binding. You will come and ask me who wrote that book. I go and tell you that no one wrote it and ink fell onto the pages and made those letters and just by coincidence the cover came on and paint fell on it in that design of the cover and glue binded the binding together. all by coincidence that glue just happened to spillout while the pages with spilled ink were on a table and so forth. you would think i'm crazy. what do you mean you would ask me. of course there was a good author and it was taken to a proffessional to put a binding on and all of that. alot of time and effort was spent making it.
I think the Mashal is obvious. the world couldn't have just came into being. that the world is so beatiful and everything. the beatiful blue sky and beautiful green grass and trees and living creatures. and how we work. and how we get food. and now that scientists have discovered all these cool things like cells and all of that it just shows the glory and incomprehensible miracles and miracles and miracles that The Creator of the world performs for us every little moment of everylittle second. Thank You Hashem! I love You so much! Thank You so much for doing these tremendous and beyond amazing acts of kindess for me everyday! thank You so much!
It is no coincidence. and in fact i don't believe in using the word coincidence. i never say something's a coincidence. never. even if someone meets someone lets say at the grocery market and it just happens to be you saw that person an hour ago. even if you didn't say anythign at all to that person. you thought to yourself "what a coincidence". i dont' think it's a coincidence at all. Hashem controls everything.
and because there is a creator that creator must control everything that goes on. of course it's beyond our comprehension so that's why it's probably so hard for you to believe this but you should know it's Emes.


Well i'm not going to aruge this. but that is a bad anology. Things such as DNA forming out of coincidence (something which we once again belive in) is pretty posible, perticulary when you consider how much time it happend over. Had the bokked formed overnight i would have said you were nuts, had it formed over 12-15 billon years i'd say your not nuts.

[CptCatz]

Well i'm not going to aruge this. but that is a bad anology. Things such as DNA forming out of coincidence (something which we once again belive in) is pretty posible, perticulary when you consider how much time it happend over. Had the bokked formed overnight i would have said you were nuts, had it formed over 12-15 billon years i'd say your not nuts.
EXACTLY! that analogy is used very often when trying to prove god. in my jewish philosophy class we read a book called "pink and yellow" which is about two wooden dolls who suddenly wonder how they got there. one of them goes onto saying that first there were two tree branches, the branches fell off a tree, rolled down a hill while hitting rocks and stones which carved out the branches into a doll shape, then a bird came and started pecking at theyre faces to make eyes, nose and mouth, then...i dont really remember but somehow they got painted and everything and the other doll was saying how the chances for all that happening was so little. in the end, the carpenter came and picked up the two dolls.

thats pretty much the same analogy irarg gave. when most people say it, they say that the chances for gene mutations to happen so perfectly is just so small. what i have to say, the chances are small, yes, i agree but if theres a chance, theres a possibility, and if theres a possibility, theres no reason to doubt it. secondly, people say that its impossible for all the mutations to turn everything so perfect. the answer to that it, we think its perfect because thats how it turned out. if it turned out a differant way, if all humans were born with 3 arms, 5 legs, and 7 digits on each hand and foot, you would think that would be the perfect way.

[Comfortably Dumb]

EXACTLY! that analogy is used very often when trying to prove god. in my jewish philosophy class we read a book called "pink and yellow" which is about two wooden dolls who suddenly wonder how they got there. one of them goes onto saying that first there were two tree branches, the branches fell off a tree, rolled down a hill while hitting rocks and stones which carved out the branches into a doll shape, then a bird came and started pecking at theyre faces to make eyes, nose and mouth, then...i dont really remember but somehow they got painted and everything and the other doll was saying how the chances for all that happening was so little. in the end, the carpenter came and picked up the two dolls.

thats pretty much the same analogy irarg gave. when most people say it, they say that the chances for gene mutations to happen so perfectly is just so small. what i have to say, the chances are small, yes, i agree but if theres a chance, theres a possibility, and if theres a possibility, theres no reason to doubt it. secondly, people say that its impossible for all the mutations to turn everything so perfect. the answer to that it, we think its perfect because thats how it turned out. if it turned out a differant way, if all humans were born with 3 arms, 5 legs, and 7 digits on each hand and foot, you would think that would be the perfect way.

Whoa!

















Your Jewish Philosophy teacher is on acid!

[other]

The chance is small, but here is something to think about: its small, but it happend this way because if it didn't happen this way it would work therefore this way had to stay around to work.

hope that made some sense.

[yodayid]

Just a thought regarding this topic - starting in the fifties, scientists tried to use computers to surpass human intelligence. The idea was that if human intelligence developed "by accident", then it should be simple for a team of engineers and scientists who have the *intention* to create intelligence to do so. They were wrong - computers have trouble with even the most basic tasks that humans can do, like walking, seeing, catching a ball. So while it's true that we can't say that humans are perfect because we're biased towards humans, we can say that they are superior to anything that we can come up with ourselves.

--Yodayid (MODERATOR)

[PrUnE]

Just a thought regarding this topic - starting in the fifties, scientists tried to use computers to surpass human intelligence. The idea was that if human intelligence developed "by accident", then it should be simple for a team of engineers and scientists who have the *intention* to create intelligence to do so. They were wrong - computers have trouble with even the most basic tasks that humans can do, like walking, seeing, catching a ball. So while it's true that we can't say that humans are perfect because we're biased towards humans, we can say that they are superior to anything that we can come up with ourselves.

--Yodayid (MODERATOR)Cough A.I Cough, plus, human inventions do things humans can't, plus just wait for the future, i gurrente in less then a million years u will be proven wrong.

[PrUnE]

people say that its impossible for all the mutations to turn everything so perfect. the answer to that it, we think its perfect because thats how it turned out. if it turned out a differant way, if all humans were born with 3 arms, 5 legs, and 7 digits on each hand and foot, you would think that would be the perfect way.Have I not said this for the past 2 years in my life and no one listens.

[other]

give us 12-15 billon years and that might change. There are also plenty of things that occur in nautre that we dont yet understand how they work that went into the devlopment of life.

[yodayid]

My point wasn't that we can't make a robot that's smarter than people. I'm saying that we haven't yet. Why not? CptCatz said: we think its perfect because thats how it turned out. I'm saying that if that's the case, then it should be EASY to make a robot that's smarter than people. PrUnE's right - we have lots of inventions that are much better than anything in nature, like airplanes, cars, computers, etc. It didn't take a million years to make any of those things. So why is it so hard to make intelligent machines?

[PrUnE]

First off, it will come, it will come, just sit bak and relax and watch, esspiaclly watch old school.

[other]

My point wasn't that we can't make a robot that's smarter than people. I'm saying that we haven't yet. Why not? CptCatz said: . I'm saying that if that's the case, then it should be EASY to make a robot that's smarter than people. PrUnE's right - we have lots of inventions that are much better than anything in nature, like airplanes, cars, computers, etc. It didn't take a million years to make any of those things. So why is it so hard to make intelligent machines?

Why haven't we invented a time machine? Why haven't we been able to control the weather? Why can't we live on mars yet?

[Comfortably Dumb]

Why haven't we invented a time machine? Why haven't we been able to control the weather? Why can't we live on mars yet?

1. DeLorean and flux capacitor. Jeez. Don't they teach you anything in school?
2. God controls the weather. Are you God?
3. Mars is a terribly cold desert that we're not fit to live on yet. Far colder than anywhere on earth. Plus, there's little to none water or plant life on there.

[whuknu]

CD- i think that may have been other's point- we arent God - therefore WE CANT do these things.

[Comfortably Dumb]

CD- i think that may have been other's point- we arent God - therefore WE CANT do these things.

Meh. I wasn't paying much attention to this thread considering that it bores me to death. I was just answering the questions in front of me.

[whuknu]

ok got it... it is geting a little boring- and definetly not talking about what we were originally talking about...