What Defines A Jew?

[Teenager]

(Admins Note: This thread was split from the 'Homosexuality' thread. The discussion branched into a discussion of what defines a Jew?)

Now bring a proof that everyone in this thread belives in god and\or is thinking in terms of god

[2face78]

well since we are all jews who by definition believe in God, but dont necisarily want to follow His laws-we do believ in God- there is a dif between thinking in terms of G-d and believing; however, if u were here for the whole convo u would no that alot of it does relate to the halachic aspect meening taht we are worried about wat the torah says and can discuss it. some pple dont care wat the torah says and some pple do indeed have dificulty believing in G-d, but when push comes to shove i would say everyone here beleives in G-d. as they say " there arent any athiests in a foxhole!"
IM OUT

[whuknu]

nameless one- i think we aready established that
2face- ppl dont neceserally believen God.

[other]

well since we are all jews who by definition believe in God, but dont necisarily want to follow His laws-we do believ in God- there is a dif between thinking in terms of G-d and believing; however, if u were here for the whole convo u would no that alot of it does relate to the halachic aspect meening taht we are worried about wat the torah says and can discuss it. some pple dont care wat the torah says and some pple do indeed have dificulty believing in G-d, but when push comes to shove i would say everyone here beleives in G-d. as they say " there arent any athiests in a foxhole!"
IM OUT

What do you mean all jews by defintion belive in god? I'm not going to start getting into the whole dictionary.com thing with diffrent defintions, but i thought the defntion of a Jew was someone who had a jewish mother?

[whuknu]

i agree with u other- A person is jewish if his mother is jewish. his religion is not based upon his belief in God. if that were the case then anyone who believened "God" (not jesus or other avoda zara) God being the God we refer to as Hashem, and the muslims refer to as alah (which is why its not necesarily avoda zara to covert to islam if need be) is jewish. im not sure if this made sense but either way other i agree with u.

[2face78]

my point was not that u r jewish if u believe in God it is that all Jews believe in God. the jew part is first.
IM OUT

[PrUnE]

my point was not that u r jewish if u believe in God it is that all Jews believe in God. the jew part is first.
IM OUTnot true at all buddy, some things u can follow in the torah and somethings u dont have to and i think homosexuality is one of them.

[PrUnE]

i agree with u other- A person is jewish if his mother is jewish. his religion is not based upon his belief in God. if that were the case then anyone who believened "God" (not jesus or other avoda zara) God being the God we refer to as Hashem, and the muslims refer to as alah (which is why its not necesarily avoda zara to covert to islam if need be) is jewish. im not sure if this made sense but either way other i agree with u.christians say ur a christain if ur dad is a christain so maybe they are right, why is it that its only based on ur mom, or why is it that u cant decide for urself?

[2face78]

okay-i neevr said mentioned gayness in my comment. and i never said anyhting about following or not following the torah. hey buddy-u think u can follow the torah at all if u dont believe in God? the answer is no, its impossible. thanks for prooving my point...
IM OUT

[randomness123]

wait, prune, u think homosexuality is which one? one to be violated or one you're not allowed to? plus i think most of the things its ok to violate are things we dont understand the reasons why theyre wrong, like homosexuality, i just wish god had given a little more direction b/c if some1 is confused about it, just saying "its an abomination" twice in the torah doesnt help some1 whos goin thru it

[2face78]

good point random!
IM OUT

[whuknu]

ok so first: not every jew believens God
second- thats just the way it is prune- ur mom is jewish so r u. i actualy was thinking about the same thing in a diferent group- someone was talking about these ppl whose grandparent may have been jewish but now according to definition they are not. so now they arent really jewish but they practice judaism and i think they define themselves as jews but they arent.

that is a good point randomness-

[PrUnE]

okay-i neevr said mentioned gayness in my comment. and i never said anyhting about following or not following the torah. hey buddy-u think u can follow the torah at all if u dont believe in God? the answer is no, its impossible. thanks for prooving my point...
IM OUTOf course u can. Besides the fact that my dad is a private rabbi and before he even knew i was an athiest he said people who dont believe in god can be 100 percent orthadox and follow the torah, why? because it doesnt say that u must believe in god, it says as one of the commandents u must ackownledge that there is one god, but you can follow every law even if u dont believe in god, i can keep shabbos if i dont believe in god. point proven

[other]

What happend to anochie hashem?

Of course u can. Besides the fact that my dad is a private rabbi and before he even knew i was an athiest he said people who dont believe in god can be 100 percent orthadox and follow the torah, why? because it doesnt say that u must believe in god, it says as one of the commandents u must ackownledge that there is one god, but you can follow every law even if u dont believe in god, i can keep shabbos if i dont believe in god. point proven

[whuknu]

i was wondering the same thing

[2face78]

that is not necisserily a commandment.
IM OUT

[other]

the 10 commandments

[whuknu]

Hashem says I am Hashem, you shall not have any other Gods... maybe one can derive that He is not commanding them to beleiven him, but it seems as though He is.

[randomness123]

its tru the first commandment is not deifnitely a commandment...

[other]

I don't mean to ask the dumb question, but if one dosn't beleive in god than why would he follow the rules of god?

p.s.

If i come off as trying to make anyone looked down upon because of how they thats not how i feel. I have these feelings also and since we all go through the same thing i thought maybe you guys can help me copmtienplate with the questions that i go thoguh in my head.

[whuknu]

other- i assume u r refering to prunes mentioning keeping the laws but nto keeping God, but prob bc one might want to still be part of the community, or maybe bc someone is trying to figure out things...

[2face78]

the 10 commandments
some say that is not considered 1 of the 10

[other]

some say that is not considered 1 of the 10
What is considered in its place?

[booklet0519]

there are not really commandments... in hebrew they are dibrot.. statments..

you are jewish is you convert or if your mother is jewish. i think the point is not to say having a god is inconvientent.. ther is non, but to say... is there a god? if there is , does he care??? part of being jewish is coming up with ansers that you can live by

[whuknu]

so in that case booklet if these are simply statements and not commandments- i can commit adultry should i choose?

[J&B]

there are not really commandments... in hebrew they are dibrot.. statments..

you are jewish is you convert or if your mother is jewish. i think the point is not to say having a god is inconvientent.. ther is non, but to say... is there a god? if there is , does he care??? part of being jewish is coming up with ansers that you can live by u r right!
it is not a mitzvah to believe that G-d exists... It would be kinda dumb to say that G-d is telling you to believe that He exists! i f you didn't believe you wouldn't listen to his precepts in the first place!!!
Yet, Anochi Hashem is a precept. It's slightly different. Departing from the most basic assumption (that you believe the Creator exists), the mitzvah of Anochi Hashem is to accept that creator upon you as an E-lohim, a lord. Following that first "diber" (not 10 commandments: 10 "dibrot"!), means believing that the Creator 'owns' you. That whatever He tells you you shall obey...
I think it makes plenty of sense.

[booklet0519]

no.. there is a certain level of morality we all should exersixe, but they aren't commandments... they are statements by god , which for soem ppl may mean do them, adn for othres may not, but adultry is still of of the 7 noachide laws.. everything you do has a consequnce

[whuknu]

ok fine- adultry was a bad example- eat not kosher, lashon hara, keep shabat?

[yenhuh]

most of the dibrot are in fact mitzvot, there are just other sorces for them in addition to the aseret hadibrot.

[other]

qustion: would beliveing in no god, like beliving in anohter god

And i still don't understand, isn't this all academic? If you don't belive in god you're not going to care what people claim he says. And if you are doing this because of pressure than ur just going to do what looks proper external, you're not going to care about the laws dealing with how u feel and think

[PrUnE]

(Admins Note: This thread was split from the 'Homosexuality' thread. The discussion branched into a discussion of what defines a Jew?)

Now bring a proof that everyone in this thread belives in god and\or is thinking in terms of goddefination of a jew, ones who mother is a jew, simple as that.

[booklet0519]

i think that is a jew( mother's jewish, ) but behaving jewishly is independent of that

[other]

i think that is a jew( mother's jewish, ) but behaving jewishly is independent of that

amen (my post is tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo short)

[J&B]

I heard a very nice thing this Hanukah.

it goes like this: A Jew is like a candle. Judaism is that candle's flame. a candle without a candle is still a candle, but it's not serving its purpose!

(you can draw many more conclusions from that statement!!!)

[PrUnE]

that still has nothing to do with what the defination of a jew is so................ i answered his question simple as that, why is anyone still postin on this thread?

[whuknu]

maybe bc now we are trying to define judaism, not a jew? want to start a new thread thats fine- but we will never find the answer of what defines judaism (i dont mean whos a jew and so on) so its prob pointless. either J&B i thought that was nice.

[J&B]

I heard a very nice thing this Hanukah.

it goes like this: A Jew is like a candle. Judaism is that candle's flame. a candle without a candle is still a candle, but it's not serving its purpose!

(you can draw many more conclusions from that statement!!!) ups! I did it again... meant "a candle without a flame..." Sorry.

[booklet0519]

j& b.. thats really cool.,. my mind is dizzy though.. b/c whats the match???

[WhoAmI]

not to be too cheesy, but the match is our neshama, its the sprak god puts inside of us that tells us we are all jewish. bac tot eh candle- we can be jewish and observe, cnadle with flame, or not observe and lat the flame burn out. wither way theres stilll a candle in existance and is up to wtvr is inside of us to relight a flame

[J&B]

The match...

What do YOU think? ...

If you still want to ask ME, I'd say that a candle could be (re) lit by another candle!

[whuknu]

and how did the first candle get lit?

[J&B]

you are going to much into the details of the methaphore... but this could be interesting.


If we say the first candle was Abraham, the he lighted himself! That was his greatness! That's why we want to be named after him...
If we said that the first candles were the Hebrews coming out of Egypt, then G-d himself lighted 600,000 of them! By revealing Himself in Sinai!

[WhoAmI]

thats the spark i was talking about! perfect!