The Sabbath

[J&B]

(I owe this one to prune...)
How do you guys feel about Shabbat? Do you think you get something from it? Does it make sense for you at all?

[J&B]

Just a brief thought.
The main point of Shabbat is to commemorate and to aknowledge that G-d created this world. Creation.
This belief is th first step towards believing in G-d, and in G-d as our Master.
Therefore the severity of Shabbos.
By profaning Shabbos one is making a statement that he/she doesn't believe in creation.
What makes creation any different from evolution, or any other 'natural' and spontaneous process, is the fact that in the seventh day G-d did not create. His not creating made out of creation a unique event. Unnatural.
We were prescribed certain laws, that remind us of it. We, as well, do not create in Shabbos. (btw, it's not "work" or "labor" that is forbidden. It's some kind of creation, forming something new, changing the state of things...)

[whuknu]

watching telivision= forming something new????
so christians are denying the world was ever created?
and wearing heels and then walking in grass on shabbat is denying that the world was ever created?

[J&B]

watching telivision= forming something new????No. You can WATCH tv! You cannot close the electric circuit (creating the potential for heat and light, just like fire...) that makes it run...
so christians are denying the world was ever created?If they were prescribed to keep the Shabbat, and they wouldn't... But they weren't. Shabbat is one of the three "Ottos" (symbols) of the covenant between the jewish people (only) and G-d. A Jew that dsrespects this aspect of tyhe covenant would imply his non-believing in creation.
and wearing heels and then walking in grass on shabbat is denying that the world was ever created?First, I'm not sure you cannot wear heels and walk on grass on shabbat.
But let's say you perform some explicit prohibition, like, cutting grass.
Yes. We, the Jewish people would interpret your cutting grass as an offense to what represents creation. Not necessarilly that you really meant that... Just like if you were in front of a king and not behaved accordingly, it would be interpreted as treson...

[whuknu]

but i didnt say cutting grass- thats diferent- that i view as actual work- and its like creatingish sort of-since ur changing it. but walking in grass with heels i guess is the same idea- only im not saying i want to wear heels and then walk in the grass thereby disobeying God- im saying that i like these shoes they are great for shabbat- and i walk on grass for some reason. but whtvr either way- does this mean that nay jew who does not keep shabbat but does believen God and the creation of the world- really doesnt? or what if they dont keep all the laws of shabbat?

[LadyOfCarlisle]

I think, perhaps, the prohibitions of shabbat extend beyond simply not doing anything symbolizing creation, they seem to be about not doing things that portray man's power over the universe, for shabbat is a day when we recognize God's sovereignty of creation while during the week we celebrate God's gift to man of governors of the world.

[whuknu]

and therefore we have to have a bunch of little tiny things that we cant do?

[Comfortably Dumb]

and therefore we have to have a bunch of little tiny things that we cant do?

Welcome to religion.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[WhoAmI]

does every violation of shabbat that derabanan, or every one thats from the torah all have the same punishments? if you violate and do teshuva, should you still feel guilty if these are just "a bunch of tiny little things"?

[J&B]

I think, perhaps, the prohibitions of shabbat extend beyond simply not doing anything symbolizing creation, they seem to be about not doing things that portray man's power over the universe, for shabbat is a day when we recognize God's sovereignty of creation while during the week we celebrate God's gift to man of governors of the world.G-d's sovereignty over creation is the most natural outcome of His Creating the world out of nothing!
So, basicly, we are saying the same thing.

What I don't agree is what u said of us governing the world. We don't. Planet Earth might have been created for us, but still, the only true Governor is G-d.

For whoever knows halachah, Shabbat prohibitions being related with creating, make much more sense! Halachically, for me to actually sin in Shabbat (and only in Shabbat), I need to do "mlechet mahshevet". My intentions need to be accomplished. If I mean to do A and accidentally did B (also forbiden), I am not liable. It would require several lines to explain what I just said... Don't want to bore you... You can get it by yourself...

[CptCatz]

By profaning Shabbos one is making a statement that he/she doesn't believe in creation.
that, my friend, is complete bull ****

[J&B]

then, my friend: would you mind sustaining such a statement? I can't stand the curiosity as to why what i said is bs...

[CptCatz]

i dont keep shobbas and yet i still believe (somewhat) in creation.

[PrUnE]

because i know ppl who believe in god just dont care about the laws.

[PrUnE]

Just a brief thought.
The main point of Shabbat is to commemorate and to aknowledge that G-d created this world. Creation.
This belief is th first step towards believing in G-d, and in G-d as our Master.
Therefore the severity of Shabbos.
By profaning Shabbos one is making a statement that he/she doesn't believe in creation.
What makes creation any different from evolution, or any other 'natural' and spontaneous process, is the fact that in the seventh day G-d did not create. His not creating made out of creation a unique event. Unnatural.
We were prescribed certain laws, that remind us of it. We, as well, do not create in Shabbos. (btw, it's not "work" or "labor" that is forbidden. It's some kind of creation, forming something new, changing the state of things...)that may be the main point, but there is still no point, you dont have to have a whole day to commerate that, u should just have a prayer cause no on thinks of that when they keep shabbos, and cptcatz already said something on the profainng shabbos one is making a statment............so i dont need to answer that.

[J&B]

cptcatz, indeed, some contemporary rabbies say that many of today's non-shabbat-keepers, do believe in creation, and they profane the shabbat by saying that it's ok to do so. Not because any real conflict with the inner meaning of Shabbat.

PrUne: please be fair.

You said Shabbat didn't make sense. I gave you an insight that makes it make more sense... Now, what do u really want from me???
Don't tel me that since many people aren't aware of the reason behind it, it's not a valid reason... just like I may put a seatbelt when I drive, not cuz i understand its importance but cuz i don't wanna break the law! It doesn't mean that now there is no more reason behind seatbelt fastening...

[shufleye]

anyone who checks out the links from this page will find more than enough to satisfy their understanding of the profoudness of Shabbat....
a lot of solid stuff here...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=39776 (http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=39776)

(copied from TheLockers.net Resource Center: http://www.thelockers.net/judaism.php#Shabbat (http://www.thelockers.net/judaism.php#Shabbat))


~shufleye - yer friendly neighborhood admin

[WhoAmI]

i think shabbat, although i find the laws annoying as hell, is one of judaism's most unique traits. a day of total rest, or if not rest= to hang out without the usual distractions. w/out it how many of us would ever go to out to oure friends houses? i find the shabbat chats with my friends and time with my family piceless and irriplacable... not to mention it gets me away from school wrk and all that

[J&B]

i think shabbat, although i find the laws annoying as hell, is one of judaism's most unique traits. a day of total rest, or if not rest= to hang out without the usual distractions. w/out it how many of us would ever go to out to oure friends houses? i find the shabbat chats with my friends and time with my family piceless and irriplacable... not to mention it gets me away from school wrk and all thatsame here...