Has the US overreached?

[i got issues]

We are at war. All empires of the world, EVER, have gone down because they spread out too far and tryed to help too many people by "liberating" them (other words for going in and kicking their a**es like america is doing now). People are supposed to learn good things from history. Geroge W. Bush is just a moron. Right now, he is trying to defy history and I believe he is cutting it close. If someone gets their hands on a nuke, your studying really wont matter.

[i got issues]

Just so you know, dont think that i hate america or its policies. I think that the war on terror is one of the best things that couldve happened to israel. I just feel like we are doing it way to fast and by doing this, our armies are way too spread out. I love living in america (temporarily, till aliyah) but i think we have to go at it more slowly. ie. get the soldiers out of Afghanistan before going onto to iraq. Or finish in Iraq before talk of a new war in Syria or Iran or North Korea.

[Maddox]

Well, first of all.. we only have about 11,000 troops in Afghanistan.. the rest is international forces and is lead by Nato. 2nd of all, since when do terrorists wait around for us to "finish whatever we are doing?". It will take about 2 years to get out of Iraq, which is not a bad rate at all considering Germany took 10 years after WWII to finally get back on its heels. If the US is in any way a threat, waiting around is not the answer.. we must go and kick a**. But if you want to cut and run like a coward, like Howard Dean who has no plan of national security at all for the country be my guest. If we were to cut and run like Mr. Dean proposes I garuntee the next fanatical dictator will be in power the following day.. and if and when our president decides to go into Iran or Syria, I will be the first one to enlist. I will not cowar away, because I am not going to let my family be put at the mercy of a bunch of thugs. I say we continue to kick A**.

[i got issues]

It comes across as hypocritical because in all your other posts you are completely advocating israel. in this situation, going into these other coutries without getting out of the other ones is bad for israel because if they dont leave the other ones, soldiers will have to stay longer and there will no longer be moreale in the american army. nobody will enlist if they know we are going to keep going to war. If nobody enlists and we need to spend more money to recruit, thats israels money down the drain. Also, all of these wars build up more tension against israel, because when america leaves after making a new "democracy", the people who were pro the old one know that they have no chance of attacking america so far away but israel is right next door. For example Saddam in 1991(scuds)

Next, im not saying we should coward out. I think we should kick Syria and Irans a**es. Nowhere in my post did you see my say that we shouldnt do it. I just said we should wait till we pull out of other places.

Next, the i am not saying i was not pro iraq war, which i happened to be, i was very PRO, but this war is never going to end. All of these conflicts where the country wants you to leave never end ie. kosovo. This is because if you leave which they want you to do, some dictator will be able to gain power and there you are, back at step 1 again. And also, who says we will be out of iraq in 2 years. The absolute minimum that im readin now is 2005. That is two years but when was the last time that you ever saw a war end on schedule. This war was declared over by President Bush on may 1st. Since then, double the amount of soldiers that died in the war have died. Once again, not that by this im saying i am anti-war. And also, another proof of this is Korea. America still has a whole base in South Korea to protect them from the north koreans and this is so many years after the war that divided them.

Post Back
BTW i love this board, whoever decided to change my post into a whole new blog, thank you. These political discussions really bring out issues in the community. ie. The way people think not only about israel but also about america and all the other places.

[Maddox]

"All of these
conflicts where the country wants you to leave never end ie."

See... here is where you are dead wrong. A new poll put out stated that 71.5% of Iraqi's want the US to stay in Iraq. But why dont you hear about it? Because of the Anti Bush, Liberal media such as NPR, and the New York times. The only people that want the americans to go are mainly the Sunni Muslims who had it well under Saddam. So why would they want us to stay? I believe we are doing a very good job in Iraq. Power is mostly restored, medication is being delivered.. Iraq even has its own money (took germany years to finally get its own money after WWII).

I think you are confusing me with AJ, because I have never posted anything about Israel. So know who you are posting to before you call someone a hypocrit.

You claim that american soldiers are being slaughted in Iraq. You people compare this to vietnam where hundreds of soldiers died A DAY. Any american loss is a shame regardless. But each day we are arresting insurgents. Iraqi citizens are coming forth with tips to where these people are. We are adapting to our environments. The Iraqi insurgents are running out of money to fund their attacks now that we switched the old Iraqi Dinar, to the new Dinar. Time is running out for these thugs. On top of that we have sent in a new Stryker assault and personal carrier which is designed to take rpg and grenade attacks, which should decrease casualties. Daily we are making improvements. But do you hear about it? No.. because of biased media groups such as npr and the NYT.

[Maddox]

Oh yeah.. forgot to mention.. Iraq attacked Israel not because America was too far, but because they wanted Israel to get involved with the Gulf War. Saddam Hussein felt.. that if the muslims saw the gulf war as a war between Muslims vs. America and Israel, Muslims would throw their support behind Iraq.. which did not happen because Israel did not respond to the scud attack.

[i got issues]

That is only your opinion, LOL, but seriously it really is. Saddam didnt attack israel for that purpose, becuase in fact, he knew that the US was as good as banning israel from getting in. Why do you think they didnt retaliate? Not because they didnt want the muslims to get in. Its publicly known that america told israel not to get involved and let america finish off what they started. That was a pretty smart move on the part of George Bush I. He didnt want a country that was an american ally that was just attacked coming out with all their rage and anger. If israel would have retaliated, they would have accomplished more in one attack than the whole Gulf War accomplished (nothing). Because obviously a second one a decade later was needed.

[Mr. X]

Just to respond to the new poll of suddenly 71.5% of American wanting the war in Iraq. Its b/c we finally got Saddam and they suddenly approve. Before we got Saddam the majority of the country did not want the war.

But about the American Empire.... Every great empire that ever existed reached their climax, then some of them had quick downfalls, and others had very slow ones. Persia was a humungous empire, but then the Greeks overran them and became the empire. Rome slowly rose up, and they then took the Greek glory. Rome was overrun by corruption, weak leaders, mistrust, too big of an army, and too many outside threats that finally just invaded and destroyed them. Rome seemed to be such a big empire, but over a couple hundred years they just vanished. Then the Dark Ages went on, and no empire rose up until England, but they lost it all from stretching themselves out and not properly governing the areas. After the World Wars, America became the world power. We've been around for 227 years, pretty long actually. We've had our good times and our bad times. But has anybody started thinking that soon the American Empire is slowly dying out? Just listen to these points.

1) The economy sucks
2) We have a stretched out army which is screwing up the economy even more
3) 9/11 showed our vulnerability, but we fixed it with higher national security, but because of our oversea wars, we pissed off the extremists more and they are trying harder to hurt us
4) Countries are embargoing our goods
5) Europeans hate us with a passion
6) The Arab world hates us with a passion
7) Extremist Muslims want to kill every American
5/6/7 A) Thats like 1/3 of the world population if not more
8) Our leader has the IQ of what?
9) Inflation is killing the country, just look at prices of stuff lately
10) Suddenly the meter measuring the possiblility terror attacks has risen
11) China has almost 2 billion people, they have a strong government, they have a great army, and are just about as technologically advanced as us, who says they won't be the powerhouse in the future?
12) The country is being overrun by foreigners taking advantage of American freedoms (not that I'm against foreigners)
13) Suddenly businesses are going to overseas areas to take advantage of a cheaper market
14) Laws are becoming stricter and stricter and countries around the world are laughing at our conservative ways (anti-weed, anti-abortion, anti-homosexuality, etc...).
15) Suddenly people in the country are becoming paranoid over terror

Who knows when the end will happen, but later on in the history books, I feel like 9/11 will be known as the climax of the American Empire.

[Maddox]

wow.. you seem to have terrible reading comprehension.. "here is where you are dead wrong. A new poll put out stated that 71.5% of Iraqi's want the US to stay in Iraq."

"Just to respond to the new poll of suddenly 71.5% of American wanting the war in Iraq."

Why cant people just read correctly? Jeez.

I emphasize IRAQI'S, not american citizens.
Economy sucks- Economy has grown at a 8.2% rate, best its been in 2 decades.

12) The country is being overrun by foreigners taking advantage of American freedoms (not that I'm against foreigners)- I accuse you of being racist. I have no complaint for foreigners to legally register from mexico or other countries if they can provide good in america, and contribute something.
11) China has almost 2 billion people, they have a strong government, they have a great army, and are just about as technologically advanced as us, who says they won't be the powerhouse in the future?- Actually the thing with China is that they have a big army.. not an advanced army. We are by far ahead in technology than the chinese.

7) Extremist Muslims want to kill every American- SO? screw the extremists. I say we kill them all.

6) The Arab world hates us with a passion- awwww.. boohoo.. Mohamed Raheef doesnt like us : (. I could care less if they like us or not. This is my country and I love it, and I'll fight those thugs who want to take away my freedom.

3) 9/11 showed our vulnerability, but we fixed it with higher national security, but because of our oversea wars, we pissed off the extremists more and they are trying harder to hurt us- your right.. I guess disrupting training camps in Afghanistan makes us even more vulnerable than we were b4 9/11.

Anyhow, learn to read better. If not for debating, do it for better SAT scores : )

[i got issues]

I agreee with maddox, X, if you were trying to defend my point you went against it. All of the things that maddox says here are very true. The economy is progressing very well, he is right about the 8.2% GdP increase. Also, the DOW jones at its high was 11,500 and now were at 10,500 up from 6000 about a year ago. That is a great improvement. The only thing here that i agree with Mr. X on is inflation. The government has borrowed about 200 to 300 billion dollars form the treasury. Everyone knows that this will never be payed back, at least within the next 50-100 years. So they are actualyll printing money without any backing or balancing at all. I think that the bush administration in its next term should focus on the inflation. Maybe try to cut back onbuilding more nukes for a year or 2 and some other things and then we will have a chance to completely rebound the economy.

[Bongo_Dude]

I don't think that bush should be reelected but thats just me. Iraq was ridiculous, there were no weapons of mass destruction and he was just trying to save his father's pride. Not to mention that they are still dying, and the war left us here out of the gov't focus. We will be the ones paying back the billions of dollars spent on the war, not bush, and the economy will suffer. Maybe now it is getting better, but it will fall, and I don't think its too far away. Getting Saddam meant nothing - he was worthless. It isnt going to change nething, maybe even make things worse. And America isnt in great shape. Not to say I agree with X, but I definitely don't like the direction this country is moving in.

- B.D.

[Mr. X]

Firstly about the racist remark, I am a foreigner too, what I was talking about was all these illegal aliens taking advantage of the country. I am pro-immigration, just do it the right way.

I misread the poll numbers b/c it was like 1 in the morning and I was basically skimming at that point.

Yes, the economy is doing better. But knowing how the economy has been doing lately anything is possible and it could go right back down if Bush doesn't figure it out. But has anybody realized we are spending billions upon billions of dollars to outstretch our army and put us in the biggest deficit our country has ever seen?

Also, China is pretty damn powerful. They're so damn secretive that nobody knows what they have. The country is science crazy. They are building nukes, and they have a pretty good technologically advanced army, but not as advanced as ours, as I said earlier but you didn't seem to see. They just sent men into space and are suddenly trying to figure out how to colonize Mars. They're not as backward as you might think.

I'm not saying the country is on its way out. It should still be around in a long time from now. All I'm saying is I won't be suprised if 9/11 is known as the climax of the American Empire when we're written down in the history books.

[i got issues]

Bongo, i think that that opinion is justified but also very wrong. Let me correct u on a few things.
1) Iraw wasnt ridiculous. There were weaponds of mass destruction and they will be found. My guess is that they are in lybia for a certain amount of money and the reason why lybia just agreed to give up all WMD is because they realize that they arent going to get anymore money from saddam now that hes gone and there is no point in watching someone elses weapons and then getting in trouble for it. EVen if they dont, which they will, saddam was still a dictator, killed 10;s of thousands of people in mass graves, which have been found and also still possessed seriously banned weapons (scuds that were fired on america troops approaching). He was vicious and only cared for himself.
2) We are not the ones paying back and the economy is not cpmpletely suffering. Especially now that we got saddam. Also, in respect to the insurgency that has been going on, the US captured seventy of the top coordinators of it today in tikrit and this is a big move because it is going to lower the amount of attacks on americans dramatically. Also, since we are successfully capturing all of these people, the economy is rebounding because people are starting to think better of the war.And also, there is no one to repay the money to. It is the treasury and the money will probably never be repayed.
3)The economy will not fall. The reason for this is because there isnt one indicator that is showing some light. All sectors of business, and marketing and the economy in general are coming along. Technology is back up ex. http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/12/25/internet.domains.ap/index.html . The GDP is rising, the unemployment is going down and the market is up. THese all lead to one thing; The economy rebounding.
4) With saddam we found lots of intelligence and stuff so he wasnt worthless at all. Read the news if you are such a news freak.
There is one thing that I agree with you on. THe country is moving in a bad direction but i think that once this war comes to its closing/peace keeping section sometime next year, the direction of the country will turn and we will once again have the dollar rising and inflation going down

[i got issues]

Back to Mr. X, i think you are wrong on two fronts, the economy is not going back down because we are seeing signs that in the past have always meant good things for future economys. Also, china cannot be that powerful because really they dont have as much money as you seem to think. They have missles to hit japan and taiwan but that is probably the extent of it.

[Maddox]

Hey Bongo Dude.. if there were no WMD then explain to me how in 1998, when UN weapons inspectors were kicked out of Iraq, the UN, as well as president Clinton said that Iraq had all the wmd.. We knew they did.. and so did the UN EVEN.. so what the hell happend to them then? Did they just walk off and leave? He had 12 freaking years to hide this stuff.. do you HONESTLY think he'd just leave it out in an open field for people to find it? I was recently watching Fox News.. and one of there intelligence analyists Monsoor Ijaz says he has a source that says he knows where they were hidden, and that he worked with the program.. but wasnt going to help the US unless a) saddam hussein was found dead or alive b) he was granted assylum.. now that we found Saddam I believe we will find the weapons in the not too distant future... and I must say, once we do.. Howard Dean will be SCREWED.. I mean.. not just screwed.. but REALLY SCREWED..

And by the way.. getting saddam was worthless? They found with him documents and a briefcase listing heads of insurgency and resistant forces which led to arrests soon after of senior figures in the insurgency.. and I guess the world isnt a better place now that a man who murdered hundreds of thousands of people has been taken into custody and soon be brought to justice..

[i got issues]

Also, in addition to maddox, i read on a website which is credible but i cant quote here because of the rules that before the war iraq gave their WMD to libya to hide. I read this before the war and now, saddam get scaptured and libya all of a sudden gives up its WMD. I honestly believe that these were saddams WMD and libya realized that they werent getting any more money for holding them so they decided to make their country and better place and give up. Now that they did, all the big world powers are courting them and giving them all the money and aid that they want.

[durden]

u guys arent lookin at the facts. there were no wmds. that's a fact that even bush has admitted. he jsutsifes the war thru other stupid things but their was no wmds

[Independent_Observer]

For now, let me just suggest the following as must-reading:
http://www.theamericancause.org/print/012407.htm

[sXc613]

America is so multicultural that while other countries have already established themselves well and are constantly evolving, America has tried to catch up and failed miserably cos of all the ideologies in this country. So now we're becoming less of a democracy in trying to "help" nations that have their own business to deal with. America sucks, I deal with it.

[CornfuzdxD]

We have stretched out way too far. Besides Kuwait, Qatar, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we have troops on active duty in Bosnia, Cyprus, Lebanon, Sudan, South Korea, Japan, and Kosovo. If we allowed Japan to have an army again, the problem wouldnt be as bad. We dont need troops at all in Bosnia, Cyprus, Lebanon, and the Sudan. They do not need to be there. I think that we are way overstretched and if it werent for the fact that Mexico's best and brightest are all over here and that Canada only has ten soldiers to its name, we'd be doomed. We need to put the maximum of our troops in Iraq and get them out of everywhere else, except South Korea and Kosovo.

[JadeTrickster]

China has access to the same technology as the US.