Tzitizt rule

[Digital Messiah]

i wear tzitzit in my school because it's a rule. It dosnt say anywear in the torah that you need to wear what today we call tzitzit. It says if you have a four corner garment you need to put the tzitzit (strings) on the 4 corners. and since we dont have any 4 corner garments today, why should we have to wear tzitzit? when i ask my gemara teacher this, he didnt know what i was talking about. this scared me, this guy is teaching me the laws of my people and he donst know the laws of what he wears ever day? what do you guys think?

[lost33]

one regardless of whether or not we have to wear tzitzis today when we dont wear four cornered garments, you still have t wear tzitzis in school becasue thast a school rule and you are a studne there and thus have to listen to the rules no matter how insane you perceive them to be, s to why we wear tzitzis nowadays i think the reason is that ya very few people actually ever wear four cornered garments today, whihc is the only clothing that is required to have tzitzis, but if you look at it form a haskafic perspective, why wouldnt we want to be able to do more mitzvot? i like the mitzvah of tzitzis i think its a great thing. as to your teacher not knowing anything id assume he either didnt undertsand the question or he was having an off day, though i dont know this teacher so for i know he could be a complete dumb*** and then youd be screwed hahaha

[Comfortably Dumb]

kdntcrethxbye

[Digital Messiah]

i also think the idea of racking up mitzvot like they're "good points" is a misconception. A mitzvah's traslation is a commandment, its not a "good deed". So why should we follow a commandment if we dont need to? If i told you to wear a green shirt only on the first monday of every month, would you wear it on every monday? or even every day? certainly not, so why tzitzit?

[lost33]

ur have the worng outlook, the mitzvah is not to rack up points, it is supposed to affect us! if you were wearing tzitzis and your about to sin and then you look down and see your tzitzis wouldnt you be less inclined to sin??? i see the whole point of tzitzis as to remind us of who we are of who we stand before, that is why they are white. for me the whole point of wearing tzitzit is to remind me of who i am and what i am supposed to do, it is there to remind me of "da lefenay me ata omed" so while we arent specifically commanded to wear tzitzis all the time, but rather only in specific cases, i dont see it as a problem to wear them otherwise. like your kipa it is a direct sign of how you are not like the rest of goyim, you are somehting different and have a different set of morals that you prescribe to.

[Digital Messiah]

I hate that "Jews are superior to non-Jews" veiw, its disgusting. A mitzvah is a commandment, somthing you should do. Why should you take something God told you to do and change it?

[lost33]

one just bec i said we have different morals to prescribe to does not mean that we are higher or lower, we are different, its a little hard to deny that. our set of morals are different then the gentile worlds. the Torah is different then the rest of the worlds guidelines for morality. as to the mitzvah, yes it is a commandment but why do u think it is a commandment? by taking the tzitzit and using them as a sign of the Torah and Judaism, i don't see how that is changing the mitzvah, the mitzvah is to wear them, what you get out of the mitzvah is your own prerogative.

[Blink]

It dosnt say anywear in the torah that you need to wear what today we call tzitzit.

Its torah she ba'al peh, that is the Torah.

[Digital Messiah]

it says in the shema to put tzitzit on your four corner garments.
There are other religions and and groups that hold to a sticter moral code than Jews.
and from where im standing, i live in a religious communitee, and in the local ALL KOSHER supermarket, the guy behind the counter with peish down to his knees and who is always reading gemarah, never says hi, thanks, your welcome, have a nice day. HOW IS THAT HIGH MORALS?

also the other day i was in a pizzia store owned by a Jew and mostly jews go their, a deaf person came into the store and handed out sign language learning cards for a donation, and one of the jews went up to the counter and told the owner "lo yehudi" ("not a jew"). where were his morals their?

now maybe your morals are high but im sure other peoples are higher and others are lower, but from where im standing the jewish nation as a whole, especially the very religous has a very low moral code, their too busy with gemara.

[Some1Else]

that whole 3rd paragrpah of Shema; it says rfoughly what the torah expounds on

[lost33]

if you want to make a valid point stop the ad hominem attacks and the over generalization and simplification of everything.

[Dontknow]

DM (i hope its ok that i call u that), look i also cant stand these ppl who are like that. but not all frum jews are like that. not all chareidim are like that. yes alot, but not all. maybe we dont need tzitzit, technically, anymore. but maybe we need them for ourselves. perhaps without them, as well as some other laws that may not apply today, we would forget who we are and what are mitzvot are. also, this might be completely untrue, but maybe that four cornered garment thing is just cuz that was what was the "style" then, now its not, but maybe it was just called that cuz thats what ppl wore, and what was meant is that men must wear tzitzit on their shirts?

[2face78]

it says in the shema to put tzitzit on your four corner garments.
There are other religions and and groups that hold to a sticter moral code than Jews.
and from where im standing, i live in a religious communitee, and in the local ALL KOSHER supermarket, the guy behind the counter with peish down to his knees and who is always reading gemarah, never says hi, thanks, your welcome, have a nice day. HOW IS THAT HIGH MORALS?

also the other day i was in a pizzia store owned by a Jew and mostly jews go their, a deaf person came into the store and handed out sign language learning cards for a donation, and one of the jews went up to the counter and told the owner "lo yehudi" ("not a jew"). where were his morals their?

now maybe your morals are high but im sure other peoples are higher and others are lower, but from where im standing the jewish nation as a whole, especially the very religous has a very low moral code, their too busy with gemara.
dude ur 100 percent right and those pple are totally going against the torah and its values. but it is important not to generalize and beleive that all of us religios jews would act that way. they are the exception not the rule!!!
IM OUT

[Blink]

i onced heared a very good saying by a Rabbi, "never Judaism by an ordinary Jew"
If you judge how people look or dress you will get no where in life, in all areas. have you never heared of shebabniks?

As you said Tzisis is only worn on 4 cornere garments and since we dont wear them nowdays why should we? its b/c the rabbis made a decree saying you have to wear a 4 cornered garment full stop in order to fulfill the mitzva.

[Digital Messiah]

first, its totally cool to call me DM, i would rather you call me by my real name, but i guess we cant do that here, oh well.

I know "the people" (like the ultra religious guy) at my grocery store isnt a repusentation of our religion, but I think we get a bad rep from people on the outside because they see these black hat wearing jews and think that is what all jews are like. they dont see me with my baseball cap, jeans, and a t shirt as a representation of jews.

regarding tzitzit, i dont think it should be a rule because you techniclly dont have to do it. thats really my point.

[Blink]

first off, majority of those "ultra orthodox" people are very nice people,(in england they are any way) they are more dedicated to Judaism than any of us probably would be, so this steriotyping of the "horrible ultra-orthodox" only stems from fear and ignorance of their world and way of life. It is the same in all areas of society, good and bad every where,as the saying goes "every single tree grows a couple of rotten fruits"

second of all it is necessary to wear tzisis as the rulings were made by great Rabbonim, not the ordinary Rabbi of today, who in comparison, knows nothing. The Torah she ba'al peh are one, you cud not understand the written one with out the ba'al peh one. Yes i understand your point, but the ruling has been made to wear the Tzisis all the time, so the idea of "only on 4 cornered garments so i wont wear one so idont have to wear tzisis" no longer stands as you have to wear tzisis full stop, period, no questions, no reasoning, end of story etc.

[Digital Messiah]

you totally missed both of my points. im just going to stop the conversation about diffrent religious groups, not why i started the thread.

you have to realize that the torah is a living document, the talmud is also. we should question it all, and by questioning and getting a good answere our faith in strengthened. Not one person has given me a good answere for why we where "tzitzit" today.

just saying you have to PERIOD, is a ignorant thing to say, you dont seem to know either.

[lost33]

no but i gave you the answer to why I wear tzitzis, also u cant not do somehting that is a halcha just becasue u dont understand it or dont have a reason for it, dont do things by rote but you cant just drop those u dont lioke, there is no picking or choosing in judiasim, its all or nothing

[Dontknow]

how about cuz God said? ppl struggle with that, cuz God said thing. Its hard to understand. I struggle with it. it seems u do too. On the one hand, we should follow God bc He is God and He is the ultimate power. On the other hand, is blind faith a good thing? Of course we can trust God, or can we? Maybe today its not NECCESSARY according to the Torah but its something we need to do for ourselves. maybe its one thing we need to keep in order not to lose "touch" w/ God and His mitzvot.

[Blink]

just saying you have to PERIOD, is a ignorant thing to say, you dont seem to know either.

no that is the rule, rabbonim have "put a fence around the Torah" as they have been commanded to do so, the reasoning behind ur question is understood, but the Rabbis made a ruling, u have to wear them, tehre is no longer that loop hole of "well i wont wear a cornered garment, so i dont have to wear tzitit" that loop hole died out around 2 thousand yrs ago, if not more, due to the Rabbinical decree of "just wear tzitit full stop", so u dont make the mistake of not fullfilling teh mitzva, it is a guard so we have no doubt whether or not we are fullfilling the mitzva.

Questions are good, (did i say their not?) and im giving u the answer. Ask any rabbi and this is the reason he will give to u.

[Digital Messiah]

2 things:

can you pick up a pen on shabbat? if your answere is NO, then our religious observance is diffrent. I understand why the rabbis put up that "fence" so i choose not to follow it. I dont walk around picking up pens all the time but if i need to i will

also, in my first post on the thread i said my gemara teacher i asked about the rule, btw he is a rabbi, said he never heard about what im talking about. (if that wasn't in my original post i appoligize.

[lost33]

you cannot choose which rabbinic rulings you will do and which you wont, there is no picking and choosing in Judaism, it is all or nothing.

[Trumpkin]

Actually, i always thought there was plenty of picking and choosing in judaism. even if you go as far back as the talmud, at the end of an argument, sometimes it doesn't go one rabbi's way or the other. sometimes it says, some people follow one rabbi, and other people follow another.
that's also true as you go down thru jewish history. some rabbis poskin one way, and others poskin another. there's always choice. you just need to stay consistent in the choices you pick. (no following rabbi x one day, and then following rabbi y on a different day)

[Blink]

yes there is a choice, but not to not do it all is a not an option.
These Rabbonim may of had an oppinion but they had a logic and a certain formula to get to these conclusions, im sure ur formula consists of nothing more than "these Rabbis made it up" or "i dont like that law" or mebe its " i dont agree". So if u can bring a formula telling me that i dont have to wear tzitit b/c i dont wear a 4 cornered garment and the Rabbis decree doesnt stand or i dont have to observe mukzeh, then mebe il folow ur halachik ruling.

What is ur question, do u want an excuse not to wear tztit? or cant u get ur head around that we have an obligation to observe commandements whcih are not so clear and the rabbonim have made them clear to us? Ask ur self honestly and see what the true reason.

[Digital Messiah]

you obviously dont want to disscuss the topic at hand, or else your posts wouldnt be steaped in personal attacks. So im not going to respond anymore.

[Blink]

listen i gave u the answer and u said i dont know wut ur talkin about. so irepeated it in a way that it might make more sence, but even then u dont like it so im tryin to get to the root of ur question.