Rabbis

[AntiJAP]

ok, first off you arent so holy just because you have smicha. you dont get respect, you earn it. when you talk to kids we can see through your bull****, and we know in the end no matter what the problem is you end it with god. do you know how cheesy that makes you sound? all it does is make kids make fun of you, and ya we do make fun of you. so instead of giving us speeches, try asking us stuff without giving us the impression that we are on trial. there is nothing worse then a rabbi who gives you the third degree

[Bongo_Dude]

whoa whoa AntiJAP. I realize that you feel that some Rabbis are fake and stuff, but I still feel that the smicha does give them the right to our respect, at least some of it. They spent years of their lives learning so they could achieve a title and a position of leadership in the Jewish people. I know it sounds really fake and stuff, but thats what it is supposed to be. Also, Judaism is centered around G-d, so maybe thats why Rabbis tie everything to Him. I respect your opinion, and I'm sure that it is pretty valid, but I still feel that Rabbis deserve our respect. Of course full respect is reserved for those who earn it, but they all deserve it to some degree. There are problems with a lot of Rabbis, and they should be worked on, just courteously.

- B.D.

[teen16]

i think antijap has a point (albeit a strong one). God isn't the answer. some wisdom from God might be. if they want us to believe - if they want us to value what they have to say (or what they say God has to say), then let it be impressive - valuable - relevant!! i mean forget about it - the stuff they teach and values they preach just do soooo little to help us with the stuff we're coping with!!! here's a newsflash - most of us arent on the mountain top with you rabbis! we're way down the hill fightin with sh*t u don't want to imagine. u want to help us? u want the torah to be valuable to us? prove it! show me the money!!! the spiritual money u say u got!! cause i dont see it

Gods a point for us to arrive at - but only after i believe.

[AntiJAP]

whoa whoa AntiJAP. I realize that you feel that some Rabbis are fake and stuff, but I still feel that the smicha does give them the right to our respect, at least some of it. They spent years of their lives learning so they could achieve a title and a position of leadership in the Jewish people. I know it sounds really fake and stuff, but thats what it is supposed to be. Also, Judaism is centered around G-d, so maybe thats why Rabbis tie everything to Him. I respect your opinion, and I'm sure that it is pretty valid, but I still feel that Rabbis deserve our respect. Of course full respect is reserved for those who earn it, but they all deserve it to some degree. There are problems with a lot of Rabbis, and they should be worked on, just courteously.

- B.D.
first off, bongo chill out!! this isnt an attack this is an opinion. yes there are rabbis who do deserve our respect, and my point is to distinguish the "good" rabbis and "bad" rabbis. the good ones do learn and take their job and responsibility as a community leader seriously, without letting it go to their head. if they honostly have perspective of what being a rabbi means then they wont make themselves out to be some kind of elite being, like "bad" ones do. i dont know about you but in my lifetime i have come into contact with some who take advantage of their smicha. what i mean by that is giving the impression of looking down on other people. sorry if you dont feel the same way. you might feel differently but you cant deny someone else's experience.

[Bongo_Dude]

Ok I'm sorry I guess I jumped the gun a little bit. I did say that i was talking about the ideal situation, and while I havent run into any rabbis like that that I can see how that would happen and I definitely agree with you. I was just a little sensitive to that fact that you were so harsh on rabbis when there are a good amount of good ones.

teen16, you also make a good point, but another thing is that a lot of rabbis arent on that mountaintop that you speak of. The younger generation of rabbis are less than ten years older than us and they know what we're going through. They are the ones who I feel get through to us - just my opinion. AntiJAP, I'm sorry if you got the wrong impression from my post. I hope you (everyone) find a good rabbi to lead us and bring us closer to G-d, because in the end I feel He is the answer (His wisdom is really a part of Him but its a big philisophical mess anyway)

- B.D.

[kiyara]

wait, im kind of confused as to what kind of forum this is - we can post what we want for rabbis to read- is that it?

I think that a lot of times instead of spening an entire class giving a lecture about life and halachot and how we mold who we are to become in our high school years, and all of this leading back to that we should care about Torah, etc, which is great, but come on - did you EVER stop to think that some of us really do have trouble with faith?? You cant assume that we are all as motivated as the next "shtark chavrusa" before going on about doing the mitzvot and serving God with feeling, how about laying a foundation for simple belief? I mean I genuinely beleive in God, but I really have a distant relationship more often than not. Its hard enough for me to deal with my own issues-socail, family, academic, personal, etc before i can think about how lucky we are that we live in heated hosues, go to yehiva, are allowed freedom of religion, and hould serve god in every way at every time. i mean God did create us with "human nature" which involves so many conplex feelings which m akes it so hard for me to give 20 minutes just once a day to daven. i know that if God hadnt put me here i wouldnt even be able to daven, and im selfish for not being so motivated to say every bracha and always bench, but God also created my feelings which are contradictory, many subconsious, and very hard to work with. hhmm...so, thanks for the ranting space - i hope any Rabbis that read this understand that its not a stupid, elementary school thing to do to just go over the basics of philosophically understanding God. Like dont just say "he gave us the Torah, it says it in the Torah, etc. because we need to first beleive that all of the styuff in the Torah happened. what about those who say that everything is to be taken figuratively????

[raistlin]

There are several types of rabbis. The easiest division to make, rather than good and bad which is so vague, is young and old. Each group has it's own idiosyncracies. The old ones won't talk about stuff we really want to know - our issues, our problems, our questions, etc. This may be for one or more of several reasons. One reason could be that they just can't answer our question or give us a firm philosophical basis. They just don't know it. Their faith is simple, blind, "because my parents did it." Another reason, related to the prevoius one, is that it makes them uncomfortable. Maybe they're not totally convinced. Maybe they have questions they suppressed many years ago because they just get in the way of being able to live normally so they just tucked them away, forgot about them, and moved on with "life," whatever that might mean. I know some of these older rabbis have definetely read all the books, halachic and non-halachic, but maybe they just didn't understand them or like them. It's just easier for them to do what they've been doing for so long because it's familiar and comfortable rather than thinking about it and challenging and questioning it, which is quite headache-inducing. Doing that stuff is reserved for us young, immature teenagers who will eventually grow out of this "phase." Both groups of old rabbis are lazy, and from what i've learned both attitudes are very un-Jewish.

Then there's the young rabbis. This group has an iteresting dynamic. You see, all smicha is nowadays is a test. You study for it, you take it, and if you pass you get the degree. Kinda like high school. Now, in high school there are those who get the degree by working for it, and those who sleep through it and get it anyway. Same thing with young people with smicha. The sleepers just want to get through the day teaching so they can go home and get paid whatever they get and learn or relax or whatever. They smicha and teach because they know it's a job they can get if they have smicha - that's pretty much all they need. No real educational motivation here. Those who worked for it are teaching either because they want to, or because they don't want to specifically teach, but because they think teaching is a 9-5 job anyone out of YU can get and they can do other things like learn (remember, these are the serious guys). That only leaves those who worked for smicha and teach because they want to as the only group with potential. They may be willing and capable of helping us. They are close to us in age. They remember our issues. But have they buried them? Are they still bothered by them? Have they found answers to their/our issues in Torah or elsewhere? I don't know. I wonder if they even know. Man I hope they read this.

[raistlin]

"i hope any Rabbis that read this understand that its not a stupid, elementary school thing to do to just go over the basics of philosophically understanding God." -kiyara
Whoa - you had phlisophy in elementary school? i'm jealous. And this is not some stupid thing - it's the cornerstone of the entire system. If I don't believe in or understand anything about God or the Torah then I have no reason to listen to it or turn to it or whatever. This is the crux of the issue. Show us that God exists, show us that the Torah is divine (cuz if ya just read it, ya kinda don't see it). We can handle whatever level of sophistication you (the rabbis) can. In ninth grade I had a very philosophical chumash class. In all honesty, it was great. The rabbi had some very interesting insights, but they had no foundation on which to rest, no framework in which to fit. So for many people what he said was like snow falling on wet pavement - it just doesn't stick. Since they don't provide us this basis, I wonder whether they even have one, or if they've even thought about it (see my previous post). And if there isn't one, well . . .

"Like dont just say "he gave us the Torah, it says it in the Torah, etc. because we need to first beleive that all of the styuff in the Torah happened. what about those who say that everything is to be taken figuratively????"
Exaclty. I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Bongo_Dude]

i dont think there is anything to add. I know that when I "found" G-d, so to speak, it was the turning point in my life. You can't expect to live as a Jew if you don't believe that there is Someone up there watching you (both as a protector and as a policeman). If you don't see Him or feel Him in your life, then you can't internalize Judaism. I also feel that teachers can only take you so far. You need to be introspective, because (corny as it sounds) G-d is in every one of us as well. Only by combining external and internal inspiration, can you truly find G-d, and then go from there. I guess I did have something to add, lol.

- B.D.

[kiyara]

This topic has played out to be interesting. I think this stuff were saying is truly beneficial and all teachers and Rabbis should see it, because its real.

Rasitlin-
I identify with how you classified the Rabbis, I feel like I know almost as many who should not have the "rabbi" title than those who truly deserve it.
We didn't have philosophy in elementary, but in 8th grade I had this great rabbi who really inspired me and I found him to be humble and knowledgable, and we were so far back on our curriculum because we kept getting into these great class-wide discussions about nevuah, meditation, spirituality, mashiach, and olam haba. It was really interesting and I remember so much of what he said and his ideas until today. So you could say that that was philosophy.

Another thing. The Torah has all these different measurements, terms, ways of talking, society, and there are many commentaries who explain vague concepts or occurences, but when we learn one (somewhat farfetched) explanation, and then we learn another, and another, and they contradict each other, and I ask the teacher "wait, how dos this work out?" and so often the bottom line is just "whichever midrash speaks to you, you can believe." But that leads me to beleive that none of them are real/true, and did this thing even happen?!

[koolme8271]

i give respect to most rabbi's. but the one thing i dont like is how some rabbis think that just because they got smicha, they dont have 2 respect others. i have a teacher in my school who doesn't respect any of the kids, so the kids wouldn't stand for him. he has to respect us before we respect him. we aren't rude to him at all, but we oculd be better. :confused:

[Bongo_Dude]

ditto to that. A rabbi has to live as a rabbi, just having smicha doesnt cut it. sure u can pass a test, but only if u can live as an example to others should u be respected.

- B.D.

[Icegal104]

In my opinion, a rabbi really has to be someone u could respect and trust, and a rabbi shouldnt ever think that he is more higher then u just cuz he has smicha or something. there should be mutual respect between us and rabbis. i mean there are some rabbis that treat people badly like kool me said but there are also some cool rabbis. so not all rabbis are bad-- right?
give me ur thoughts on this subject.
bye bye ya'll
~I Luv Ice~

[why all this]

hey,
i agree 100% on all those comments. a rabbi not only is supposed live up to the " rabbi image" as a religous leader and some one to look up to for things on religon but in judaism, at least i can say for my self, alot of it is about respecting others and making an effort to do positive things for other people regardless of who or what title you have. also i think this is about all teachers really but it applys a huge amount to rabbis being that we go to a yeshiva. teachers i dont feel realize that they are effecting our lives for ever. wether or not they like it thats the way it goes. so if you really think about it, the students going to a yeshiva are obviusly having some religouse conection more than others or atleast looking for one. they want a life style that has some judaism in it so as a teacher and even a rabbi, why go against everything you preach? it doesnt work like that. rabbis the most, in a yeshiva have to be setting the example. thats what getting smicha and the whole title of a rabbi is about, effecting people positivly around the world. so why set a bad image on your self to others? it just doesnt make sense

[Gingyish]

I have a teacher who happens to have Smicha, but he refuses to be called Rabbi. He claims that since he gave up that life of having a shul or learning or helping people in that way he doesn't deserve it. I totally respect that. Just because he passed a test does not mean he deserves the respect. It is the effort of guiding people or contributing to society that counts towards respect.

[lost33]

all i no is that there r some rabbis who feel like it is thier duty to do kiruv on u wether u want it or not wen a rabi makes the kiruv feel forced do they honestley think they r accomplishing anything or do they feel a need to do some sort of lubavitch kiruv were all of sudden ebc of wat they said ull have an epiphany and revere then for the rest of ur life i appreiciate kiruv wen its sincere not wen its just done bec thats the job requirment of a rabbi i just get the feeling that many rabbis do things out of rote not out of sincerity of no fualt of their own but they shouldnt make us bear the brunt of it

ps that wasnt a slur agianst chabad i think theyre great i mean they r all over the world and look wat they have done for unaffiliated jews

[Piklejuce17]

some rabbies are rly good but all the ones at mi school are really anti-woman!!!!!! it is soooooo annoying!!!!!!! like, we will be learning and they will say that "god forbid the kid that was born is a girl" or along those lines! it tees me off!!!!!!!!!