is it really true?? (guys and girls)

[kiyara]

you all know, whether your in a coed school or not, the stereotype that girls learn better in a single sex school because they dont have the pressure of thinking that boys are looking at them. Well I dont know how much I agree with that, b/c in some ways the pressure between girls can even be worse than pressure from knowing guys around, but this is also a question - do guys also feel pressure/nervous around girls like if they like them, or its one of those social situations where there are little clusters of people, usually separate sexes, but sooner or later some are bound to mingle....do guys feel totally on top of it all..., and confident that girls like them, and are popular, or not?

This topic isnt going the way I envisioned it, so I'll just add a few more things Id be interested in hearing opinions about.

Which do you think is better - guys asking out girls, or vice versa? I know it's assumed that guys do the asking, but seriously, arent you sometimes scared?

And what do you think about all of the things that (in some schools) teachers/admins are trying to do to ease the clique tension, like programs, trips, bonding/interactive/inter-grade activities?

We never really had any of that before high school, and I think its almost weird, teachers being in any way involved in our personal lives - but the problem is, these events rarely "work" it isnt like if you are put in a group with people you are intent on having nothing to do with, you'll suddenly be friends with them after the day you had to discuss something with them by force. what do you all think?

And are cliques worse in coed schools, all boys, or all girls? (opinion obviously) it depends on the school/ people too....

[sweetgirl12237]

the trips never realy helped.. i foudn that at the trips all it did was bring ppl who were close closer and ppl who were "outcasts" stayed outcasts of the grade. unfortunately, thats the way it works and i dont think that trips are what is goign to change that long "tradition"- for lack of a better word...WHAT YOU PUT INTO SOMETHIGN IS WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT no matter who you are... if your the most popular or the msot ignored.. if u make sure ur having a good time with ur few friends then u will be fine its all in the perspective of the person/s

cliques are bad wherever u go. speakign from experience in an all girls school and a co-ed school there really is no difference it depends on how open the ppl are to having their groups spread out and disolve. in an all girls school sometimes they are more stuck up bc there are no guys to impress you find that you dress to impress the girls and the cliques are harder to break... i dont knwo if that made sense or if i was jsut rambling on which i tend to do a lot adn im sorry but yeah thats all

[why all this]

hey,
i think that the pressure is still around in an all guys school. it may not be the same type but the fact that there are no girls around in school makes us run out and find girls out side of school and it makes us be more careful about what we look like or how we act in case we go out or socialize randomly with some girls we see in a store. i think that by not being around girls in school it makes u have urges to go and find them out side of it rather than just be inticapting the end of class to see them in the hall.
also on the topic of if guys ever get nervous or scared bout askin girls out or vice versa. umm...... i think girls ( this is from a guys point of view ...sorry if tis way off) are nervous the majority of the time only because its very rare and it allways ends up that the guy makes the move and asks the question. i have friends that have asked guys to go out with them but they allways have wierd feelings afterward because its not the norm. i dont see anythin wrong with agirl askin a guy out and i think they should more often its all about steppin up to the plate. guys have the same problem, they get nervous also. guys ahte rejection. they are never sure at first wether or not the girl will say yes and most guys have to build up the selfesteem in order to ask her. girls have to realize that guys are humans too. yes we have our differences but it all comes down to it that we do get nervous over alot of the same stuff and we do have anxioty and other feelings the same as they do. its all about takin charge and steppin up to make a difference and once more girls do it i think relationships will be more at ease.

[the old man]

good god! maybe it comes from being in an all boys school, but i get nervous when i just see a girl.

[TheBlueGreenMystery]

meh.
i used to get nervous, but not anymore.
guys in general though have that problem.
if i wanted to, i wouldnt hesitate to ask a girl out, b/c if she says yes, then cool, if she says no, then... either i ask y (u dont like me, or wtvr) or i just wont care b/c it happens...
a girl asking a guy out? ummm i dunno.. not normal, but would be great for his self esteem :)

[kiyara]

wow I am really glad you all responded, this really is a big deal right now for me. I agree with whoever said(sorry i forgot) that when your in an all girls school theres more pressure(even internally) to "seek" guys to either hang out with as friends, or potential boyfriends, outside of school. whether it be going to a sports game of boy schools, going to a socializing shul, ncsy, or camp stuff, its really hard and can also be depressing if you arent 'in the loop' with all those typical orthodox teen activities.

And I am also nervous when I just see a guy, maybe it does have to do with the all girls school factor.

Sweetgirl- I know what you mean about the worse cliques in all girls schools, and people definitely dress to impress other girls, maybe in different cliques. But the odd thing is, in elementary, which was co-ed for me, there were cliques, and the determining factor of which clique was "popular/cool" within the girls at least, was who was really friends with/talk to/hang out with outside of school the boys. And it was prob. the same for the boys - the cool ones were the ones who were friends with girls. So it kind of carries over in high school - the pressure to have some connection with guys outside of shcool. and it sucks...b/c some of us are shy and dont have the best connections, but whatever.

I think that whenever I ask out a guy they reject me. just my personal opinion.

[CptCatz]

kiyara and all you other girls out there, JUST ASK!!! trust me as a boy, if you are a semi-good looking girl and you are asking out a guy, chances are the guy will say yes. i say semi-good looking because as most of you know, guys mostly care about what the girls look like, yeah you may think its shallow but thats just how it is and you have to accept it. but dont hesitate because as a whole, girls are a lot more talkative than guys are so the guy probably will not be the first to ask unless they are already good friends.

[kiyara]

wow cptcatz, do we live in the same metro area?

I actually probably ruin any crush I have on a guy by being too morbidly open with them about my thoughts and feelings, therefore pushing/scaring them away. I don't know how to keep my mouth shut sometimes. And besides for that nobody ever really likes me - and I don't think I'm ugly. Just because Im not a blue eye'd blonde(nobody is!)
I think I'm pretty good looking and well whatever. I just want a boyfriend that will be good looking and understand me and just be there. ya know what i mean guys?

[sweetgirl12237]

y does everythign have to be about looks?!? y cant it be about how the person is, his or her personality and how they treat u? damn! alright... kiyara, it seems like ur trying to hard. u wnat a bf so badly that ur nto realizing what ur saying is goign to scare him off. all u have is ur ultimate "goal" in mind. take a break form the guy hunt.. i met my bf when i least expected it and i refused to think of him as anything but a friend bc i didnt want to scare him away. tkae that break- the key is realizing when uve shared to much with a guy. ull realize that once u stop searching

[kiyara]

I know all that, but it is really hard for me because I always feel like I have that need to fil the void. And how the hell am I supposed to meet guys if I go to an all girls shcool?
And I don't want to hear shul/camp/bnei akiva/ncsy.....because im not the typical orthodox mold like that.

Yah, I guess there just is no other way.

[TheBlueGreenMystery]

ok well u dont wanna hear it but do ncsy anyways. whether ur religious or irreligious, it works for everyone and can accomodate everyone.

not all guys are interested in good looks. for me, you have to be at least decent looking, true, but you dont need to be stunning, ur personality is also a big factor. i would hate going out with a dumb blonde... omg if i cant have a normal convo w/ someone, or if she doesnt have common sense, even if she is stunning, the answer would be no. thats that.

kiyara- dont be TOO open about ur feelings. be open but know ur limits -u should try not looking too desperate. if u play a little harder to gt i garuntee ull be fine.

[Confuzedinlimbo]

My biggest problem ae the amout of players I know. They'll just flirt with every girl and hok up wit them too. They honesty make it hard for me to belive that guys have real feelings. And also alot of the guys are just oboxious if they think you're a geek (or for no reason) while the girls stand on the side and giggle. So excuse me if i think most guys don't have alot of feelings but sometimes thewhole gender just confuzs me. WTF? To some of the guys i know, looks are everything.

[SuperSaiyan3]

why should it not be all about looks......and also guys are mean not because they dont like you....because its funny....everyone always says "how could you find pleasure in someone elses displeasure" heres a simple answer....how can you not....when you watch a movie do you wanna see everyone all happy and dandy....HELL NO.....you wanna watch people die.....if your a girl and you want to get a guy just go for it....all most guys want is sex......

[hushedfire]

hell yeah.thats basicly why mostly, guys are into girls looks.becuase they want sex.why the hell are guys so into the whole physical thing?god, its like they have a never ending libido (thats a sex drive for those of you who are confused..)

[Icegal104]

most guyz r shallow, i think guyz should look at the inside of a girl instead of just the outside. if a girl isnt hot, but she has a great personality, wouldnt a normal guy want to go out with her?
get back 2 me

[Icegal104]

i usually play hard to get with most guys- but it just seems to scare them off!
guys- any suggestions?
please respond
thanx
~I Luv Ice~

[kiyara]

playing hard to get is all dandy, but for those of us that basically have "no guys" we get really subconcsiously desperate and whenever a guy comes along we pounce at the chance....which sounds weird and gross but its hard to express that feeling, esp. for ppl in a single sex school.

[Icegal104]

i go to a co-ed school so i cant really indentify with u but last year, i went to this super religious school where there WERE boys but we couldnt talk to them so i never had any boyfriends or any guyz next to me so i used to like every guy but now its not like that anymore for me.
~I Luv Ice~

[TheBlueGreenMystery]

ok well to ice girl -
A)if the personality fits, and she is decent looking, then some guys would go out with her - like me for example. but thats only if her personality... "fits" ... i dont know how to explain this, but every person has their "needs", and if the other person's personality fits those needs, then why not? (also she has to be decent looking, if shes nasty then sorry but no way). i dont think thats to shallow on my part.

B) i hope that by hard to get u didnt mean u were "shomer negiah" in a sense - not that u said it or actively practiced it, but wouldnt even allow touching. cuz if thats the case, then no wonder it scares them off. and also u cant play at it for too long - after a while the guy will give up trying... so u can do it for a little while, and make the guy work for it, and if u like him, make sure u stop playing hard to get after he already "worked for it" for a bit

[sweetgirl12237]

playing hard to get is great but u need to know when to stop... guys get tired of that and stop after a while...
of course a normal guy would go out with a girl who was so so looking.. but if a guy was good looking.. sometimes he might not be so shallow and go for that same girl. i found that it has depended on the guys.. nomatter whre u go some are sh***ks and some are sweethearts

[Icegal104]

oh my gosh
thanx for ur helpful suggestions u guyz
they really DO help a lot
~I Luv Ice~

[domim]

patience!!!!! boys will like you, boys will ask you out, boys will fall in lvoe with you, boys will grow up and youll fall in love with them too- right now im going out w/ the most amazing guy ever who i went to school with for years and we were just friends, we both liked each other but neither of us ever made the jump to more- now its all progressing and its great- but dont rush things- and dont- for gods sakes- dont- be desperate!!!

[magniv123]

just to add--

isnt it funny how those of us that play hard to get end up a lot of times with no one, and then those of us that just totally put ourselves out there (and i dont mean that in the most flattering way....) have a trail of boys at our feet...

i guess its all a matter of how long you wanna wait for whatever you want, what it is that you want, what it is that youre looking for, what you want out of it, and how you see yourself and the importance of whatever "It" is in your life...

a lot of girls want a guy, but why? im trying to figure it out for myself in fact. i know personally i get frustrated soemtimes because i am so tight with the guys but only in a platonic way. i guess i make it that way, but at the same time there are those moments where you want a guy to be interested in you!!! just to know that you are cool like that!!! haha

i dunno...why do ppl get into relationships/want relationships and the diff degrees of them -- some are serious, some are not...


input please>>>i think this is a super interesting and relevant issue dudes

magniv!

[kiyara]

all right, some girls want guys b/c we have (thank God) working hormones.
And b/c we need something to take up time, give us someone to lean on, feel like we are worth something.

[magniv123]

ya i def agree kiyara!

:-) and indeed thank God!

[sweetgirl12237]

i def agree with kiyara, except she forgot one type of relationship... the showing off htat you have the bf and the one where ppl r only there for the play- happens more than u think it does (whihc in itself is a sad fact but still...)

[wuts the deal]

maybe kiyaras right, but doesnt it sometimes feel like saying that its all just rationalization? like you know theres something out there more important then being frineds with guys/girls, but its just fun so you do it-and then you try to make yourself feel good by saying its normal and stuff.....the whole making yuorself feel good and self-worth is understanable even if its rationalization, but the thing about it being hormones- thats such a bad answer, thats just saying its pure physical drive, is everything reduced to that? i hope not. and how would you explain a truly platonic relationship then? further, what about people who are shomer being frineds with guys/girls? horomones are really involved ya know?

[pongo]

what u said bout platonic relationships. i belive they exist but i was always told by teachers that they dont. any thoughts..?

[kiyara]

i think they can exist. think about it, theres definitely someone that everyonw can think of who is the opposite sexd, yet they would never ever have a bf/gf type relationship with. if that feeling is felt by both parties, then you have platonic-ness.

Although It is pretty hard, especially at certain stages in your life when the first thing coming to your head when you meet a new boy/girl is
potential bf/gf?, hot or not?

but you cant make a generalization like that[that they cannot exist]

[pongo]

i agree, but my teachers would always say...
"you never know what the guy is thinking" and use that as a justification that there is no such thing. Guys... WHAT R U THINKING!?

[kiyara]

heh I dont think those sheltered hair covering women know what guys are thinking either, but they primitively assume the worst, which is probably
"what a hottie, let me go mas****** now to satisfy my hormones."

(i dont know for sure, im not a guy, but what else...)

[pongo]

hate to break it to you, but in my experience its not always the frummy teachers who preach to us about this, but about 1/2 the time its the rabbis who tell us this

[Blink]

If my skl was mixed i would not do as well as i did, gals are way too disstracting, fun, but disstracting.

[Confuzedinlimbo]

ok, i have a problem with dating and stuff. you know how sometime you go out with this girl and she seems normal but then ends up a bit weird just cause she says the wrong t hing or whatever. well, i'm that girl. it's so weird but every single relationship i've had with a guy I have either said or done soimething wrong to turn them off. so, if anyone can tell me what the hell you are supposed to do, i'd appreciate it.

[kiyara]

um, wow.

Not to repeat, but I am that girl also!
It is just so frustrating. Its not that I am not normal, but I am very honest and i dunno, maybe opinionated, and I am different than the typical shallow high school girl. Once I start opening up, its like i scare them away or something:(

[whuknu]

Wow. I feel a little better knowing that others are that girl to! Except that for me its bad both ways- if i like a guy i always say the completely wrong things and it seems that the guys i like never like me-but any guy who actually does like me, i get a little freaked out and back off, sometimes cuz im not sure if i like them, or what if i screw it up by saying or doing the wrong thing. neways its good to know im not alone- ne one else get freaked out by this though?

[sweetgirl12237]

i do all the time, but the difference now is that i found a guy who when i start to get weird and whatnot (bc im scared or thats jsut the way i am) he doesnt get scared... he just stays there and "walks me through it"... ull find the guy like that and then there is no need to be scared or to scare them off.................
~until then, just be urself. the reason i scared guys off was bc i was scared to be myself. then i realized that if i couldnt be myself y was i with them???

[whuknu]

i actually now have a problem with something like this- for a while now even if there was the slight chance that i might like a guy i would jsut erase it from my mind (bc having a bf can be time consuming and if its end up bad then it can be painful). but some times i get lonely (of course i have my friends but obviosly its not the same). and i met this guy recently and i think i like him but i dont know if it would ever work out cuz i dont know how he feels and all that and im terrified of rejection. i feel like i should just erase it from my mind bc it probably wouldnt work out but i hate being lonely all the time bc im scared of rejection and being hurt. help!

[DeliaDeLyon]

The way I look at it is that you just have to push yourself to get passed your fears. Its like getting into a swimming pool that you think might be cold. You just have to close your eyes and jump in and say, "Hey, whats the worst that could happen." I know its really hard to just stop being scared of rejection but if the guys a decent guy its not like hes gonna laugh at you or anything, at worst he's just going to say he's sorry but is not interested though will probably still want to be friends. At best, he'll tell you he was thinking the same thing. Anyways, if you ask him out kind of casually, like if you dont make it such a big deal, then you dont have to worry about rejection because if its clear that he isnt interested you'll know before he knows that you were.

[whuknu]

but how do i do that? ask someone out casually? its so hard- and weird/awkward. i definetly dont want things to be weird if it doesnt work out. so if u (delia, or neone else) have ne ideas on how to ask someone so casually that i wont feel stupid...please share!

[Blink]

i actually now have a problem with something like this- for a while now even if there was the slight chance that i might like a guy i would jsut erase it from my mind (bc having a bf can be time consuming and if its end up bad then it can be painful). but some times i get lonely (of course i have my friends but obviosly its not the same). and i met this guy recently and i think i like him but i dont know if it would ever work out cuz i dont know how he feels and all that and im terrified of rejection. i feel like i should just erase it from my mind bc it probably wouldnt work out but i hate being lonely all the time bc im scared of rejection and being hurt. help!


i do that, weneva i have feelings for sumone, i just ignore them and they fade away, of course, it can be painful, but its easy. mY frends tell me thats the reason y go crazy and get weird moods as i bottle up emotions.

[whuknu]

Me too! Because I hold eveything inside I feel like I go completely crazy! But I dont want to let it fade away anymore. Alot of my friends have boy friends/girlfriends, and it makes me feel a little lonely. but i actually like this guy (i think- i mean how do u actually know u like someone? but thats for another time). I think that i want something to happen- no more fading- bc then its my own fault that i am lonely- sure its a great way to protect ur self from pain but its also alowing alot more pain in by being lonely. I dont know if u feel the same way blink but what do i do now?

[whuknu]

I'm sorry i just posted something i realized that i did something wrong- blink i didnt mean to sound like i was putting words in ur mouth so i apologize- but do u feel the same way? bc doesnt it get hard? do u really want to erase every feeling for a guy/girl that u have? (sorry im not sure if ur a girl or boy and i dont want to offend u, i know it might say in another post, so im sorry) So again im very sorry for putting words in ur mouth but is it true what i sed? do u want to stop erasing feelings?

[DeliaDeLyon]

I have trouble finding people that I like so when I do find someone, I dont want to stop liking them. Its not so hard to ask someone out casually, you just have to find something to do that you have in common and make it sound like no one else wants to do that thing with you and so you have no other choice but to ask them. That way, it doesnt sound like you're asking them out because you really like them, it just sounds like you really want to that thing. For example, lets you both really like ice skating; you can say "hey i really want to go skating cause i havent gone in years since no one i know wants to go with me, do you want go sometime or do you know anyone else that would go with me" (of course you dont want to go with anyone else but this way it sounds like you really just want to go skating, not go out with them) or like if you want to see a certain movie you can say all your friends think it looks stupid but you really want to see it. I find thats its always good to make it seem like youre asking the person to help you out with something, or do you a favor. I hope this helps a little bit. I have a whole bunch of other ideas but i think whats really most important is if you make it sound like its not such a big deal and try to bring up the idea of hanging out as if just occured to you, not like youve been thinking about it for a while.

Also, To any guys who might be reading this; I dont know if this is really the best way to ask a girl out, we usually like all that cheesy "I've been thinking about this for a long time and I've come to realize that I really like you . . . la la la." And please forget you ever read this cause youre not supposed to know any of our girly tricks.

[kiyara]

is it just me, or is a platonic relationship IMPOSSIBLE right now?
Like I have a whole separate part of mine mind that seems sex-related. Like, when I meet a guy, in any situation on of the first things I think is "possible future boyfriend?" its like...not good.
Also (honesty coming up) whenever I look at/listen to a teacher/rabbi talk I always think (when they are married) wow...this person has had sex. and they are like...a teacher!! argh. how weird....

ok please tell me im not the only one who imagines this...(not in like a fantasizing way, but in a "yeeesh way"

[whuknu]

I thought i posted- thats weird- anyways to delia- well i actually thought of waht u sed after u sed to ask him out casually- but like then i realized it kind of just sounds like 'oh ur my friend want to go ice skating' (or whatever it is). But maybe I will try it, I have to see what happens i guess. But also for the guys- if ur really shy than this method could work- but i agree with delia-totally love the cheezyness. Also- u sed u have other ideas- all are welcome- i like to keep my options open.

Any guys who might be reading this- if u have any ideas of what u would want a girl to do hear, please tell me. like i sed i want to hear all ideas.

to kiyara: yeh sometimes i think about those things- like this guy could maybe be a possible future boyfriend or whtvr. Also that whole teacher/rabbi thing- omg i think about it to sometimes and its a little weird lol i mean they are our teachers and yeh.

[luckst4rs]

well i mean i have about a million platonic relationships. i mean i guess my secret is just distance- when your best guy friends are in israel or other states its much easier to just call them up and spill your heart to them and you dont have a problem with physicality till you see them. i mean i probably would want to end up eventually being with these guys if i did not have the distance issue. also sometimes just not all guys want to like you and have a physical relationship so that helps a lot. i mean its not like you wanna touch every guy you have a good convo with? some people you just cant possibly feel that way about....

[J&B]

Has anyone read "men are from mars, women are from venus"? I'm in the middle of it. By I can tell you everything he says makes perfect sense! I have right now a much healthier relationship with girls! Even with my mom http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif and my older sister http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif!!!
...It's John Gray's.
btw, much shorter than Harry Potter, I'm sure everybody can afford reading it http://www.thelockers.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[GrainofSalt]

Hey Kiyara, I know this is a little old, but I was reading through this post and I saw what you said about not being in the "Orthodox loop" but still wanting to meet guys. I'm not in the loop is well but why I do is go to common teen hangout spots, (I live in queens so they tend to be abundant) go with a few friends and talk to people. Its the best way to make friends

[kiyara]

yeah i know- but i hate that typical forced/fake stuff. because im not totally comfortable with it, i tend to push it away/scoff at it, bc im kind of intimidated.

[2face78]

do u 2 go to orthodox hs. y r u not in the loop if u do?
IM OUT

[kiyara]

i go to one, its just the stuff like outside of school...whatever.

[WhoAmI]

explain? no social life?

[kiyara]

uch forget it. its not like that, its more like "i have a social life but i dont realy enjoy/take interest in the big trashy party scenes that go on, adn therefore i feel awkward...i have friends just am not like majorly into ncsy/shabbatons etc....

[2face78]

im not into the party thing either yet i have a good social life.
IM OUT

[WhoAmI]

look, im totally into the social scene. but i dont want to include ncsy/shabbaton in that scene. there are many, MANY people who have other reasons for doing NCSY. those that go for the social scene aren't usually liked very much by the real people that do things for NCSY. plus, as i love NCSY and the things they do and i enjoy the social scene, usually, i cant stand the people that just go for the social scene. theyre just there for the wrong reasons.

[2face78]

u meen 99.9% of the pple who go.
look-there are two types of pple that should go to ncsy. cool religious kids who are trying to affect in a positive way, the irreligious kids who are interested in judaism. in reality the first group is really small and the irreligious group is sorta small too. wat most kids are are the bad religious kids who just go to hang out with the rest of their pothead freinds and hook up with girls. thats y i dislike ncsy. in theory is a very good org. in practice, at least in the nj region, it ****s!
IM OUT

[WhoAmI]

thats your theory. its not true. amybe a little, but definitely not 99%, i think ou're overreacting. if you stay with the right crowd NCSY is fun and not a social scene.
2face, please.

[other]

Part of NCSY for most people i know is hateing it, saying how much you wish you weren't there, and then when you leave dieing to come back. And because of that i'm pissed i'm stuck at home this weekend )-: